When it comes down to it, game 2.0 proponents don’t truly understand game. They may think they do, but they don’t. What they’re dealing with is a “watered down” version of game:

“that is NOT game 101. that is WATERED DOWN game 101.”

Yes. Exactly.

Susan’s biggest problem is that she *thinks* she understands game, and men.

Well, it’s not what we know in life that gets us into trouble; it’s what we think we know that just ain’t so.

Susan is, and will always be, part of Team Woman.

What does “watered down game” attempt to produce? Some would call it a “better beta”, but it would be accurate to say a “better” chump. The biggest threat to form of promiscuity women prefer is men who were supposed to be the chumps that they married realizing the truth and avoiding becoming a chump. Whether these men decided to become a PUA or a ghost or something in between doesn’t matter. With knowledge these men can choose a path other than being a chump. The weakest link (to women) in the female preferred form of promiscuity is finding a chump when a woman is done with the alpha carousel because either the chumps will discover the truth and not be chumps or the chumps won’t be attractive to women. Game 2.0 tries to attack that problem by watering down game so only the desired result of a “better” chump can be produced. This will never work since game 2.0 proponents don’t truly understand game in the first place.

As someone who actually studied Game for several years it’s coming to the point where I really have no idea what it means anymore.

The Frost/Elam debate informed us that Game was the study of how women react to men’s behavior. And successful game is whatever results in your p in her v.

Therefore, if Walsh’s tactics result in p in v, why are we knocking it? When DeAngelo and Neil Strauss praise feminism and hand out pussy passes for shit tests because “women can’t help it” apparently that is also valid Game because they get p in v. A lot of PUAs are anti- men’s rights. But they get p in v so that must make it ok. Dozens of PUAs essentially train men to become calliope monkeys for female amusement. But they get p in v so that makes it ok?

At one point I felt that Game could be an emancipatory technology for men. But that was because I thought that Game only included strategies by which a man could truly take his power back.

As I now understand it, I have to say that Game in all it’s iterations is actually detrimental to men, because simply getting p in v does not emancipate men from the matriarchy. In fact, it further entrenches.

So I’m hard-pressed to see why we are shaking fingers at Walsh when we probably should be cleaning our own house first.

Therefore, if Walsh’s tactics result in p in v, why are we knocking it? When DeAngelo and Neil Strauss praise feminism and hand out pussy passes for shit tests because “women can’t help it” apparently that is also valid Game because they get p in v.

In Susan Walsh’s case they don’t work because she has no clue on how to deal with heterosexual women as a man wanting to have sex and/or have a relationship with them. The problem with her and others like OneSTDV is that they’re not actually using game. They’re just blabbering on about it for anti-male reasons.

DeAngelo and Strauss tactics work I would assume since they would have to generate results, but every man has to ask himself if it’s worth it. For many men it’s not and they decide to go ghost or some of non-game option which is perfectly valid.

Susan Walsh hates the hookup culture in college and began her blog primarily to warn young college women against it, when she herself had a daughter in college a few years ago – she’s just graduated.

She basically hates alpha male priorities having dominance in the college age and middle twenties American culture. To her credit she has figured out that the primary reason why is “sex positive” slut sheltering American feminism is the main reason why, but she just instinctually wants to blame and shame male players too, most recently me (though it didn’t go so well her way, beta males and other alpha’s there weren’t much in support, to her dismay, only a few. She has had no real logical answer to my retorts, but she kept plugging away at me, and rallying the few female commenters there (as opposed to lurkers) to largely agree with her. Still, made no real headway against me. Heh. Female jealously not only as an innate instinct but also as sort of a divine right to be respected, was the common theme, against all logic and international example of how that varies a lot culturally in it’s intensity and low or high trigger of abandonment threat.

Game 3.0 is recognizing that there is a yin-yang effect. On one hand you’ve got all the stuff that gets your foot in the door, basically all the outer-game elements and perhaps an opener and routine or three. On the other hand is all the stuff that keeps her interest long-term. This is where the holistic self-improvement pays off and building true confidence and developing inner-game really matters.

Hasn’t Game always fundamentally been sanitized and presented as woman-friendly and pro-feminist? The public faces of Game well-known to the public aren’t Roosh or Roissy; it’s Mystery and Neil Strauss. Have they ever said as much as one bad word about feminism? No.

“That said, Roissy and Roosh are better teachers of Game that those who peddle seminars.”

Roissy & Roosh teach watered down game, their advice is not real PUA, Roosh is a ridiculously poor PUA compared to a real pua, he’s a joke, his success rate is that of a beginner pua & he’s far too empathetic towards the women he beds, typical of a rookie pua

Roosh is a beginner number batter, he plays the numbers, he doesnt peacock, or uses alot of PUA concepts & very rarely teaches a clear method of pua, most of his advice is opinion equivelant of a beginner pua

Roosh’s trips to other countries are merely hype with no substance

In short Roissy & Roosh simply cant afford to teach real pua, as they’ll alienate most of the men reading their blogs

Real pua is pretty hardcore & requires a major re-evaluation of a persons personality, if they pointed out the vast majority of their readers were STILL NOWHERE near being a pua, after spending years reading their posts, you’d get some pretty pissed off blog readers

Mystery & Strauss will always pay lipservice to feminism in their interviews, it brings in the big bucks.

Outside of the media interviews theres virtually no feminism …

Yes Mysteries said crap like leaving her better then you found her …. but thats relative to how much you neg & game the girl … nothing to do with feminism

I always find it hilarious how far the mangina anti-gamers like novy go to try & persuade ppl game is some sort of scam …

The REAL PUA’s & Gamers are out there, ppl like David Deida, Vin DeCarlo, Krauser etc., just dont expect the likes of Alek Novy to point them out, as anti-gamers like him its all about selling mis-information to gullible manginas

I’ve been in the PUA community for over 5 years now, & I dont consider Roissy or Roosh as real PUA’s, alot of their advice is watered down game, compared to heavy weight PUA’s like David Deida, Vin DeCarlo etc.

Real game is pretty ruthless when it comes to women & the inner game concepts, if Roosh or Roissy tried teaching the more hardcore concepts of PUA, or Real Inner Game theory, theyd alienate alot of men

Real effective game requires ruthless confidence bordering on narcisstic, as thats what it takes to game a HB10

Real game is Essentially State Game, Frame Control, Insane levels of confidence & most importantly the ability to induce your willpower over another person

Never admit your wrong, treat every mistake as a solution, never apologise for your needs as a man ….

rmaxd, there doesn’t seem to be many reasonably priced and useful NLP stuff in video format. There is much more stuff in book form. It seems some books target business audience but I didn’t see much wrt hooking up although one can imagine and test one’s idea.

1) A natural who was doing some things right, and can now supercharge his results with new added information.

2) A man who was good on paper, but underperforming due to anti-Game, or pedestalization.

Completely agree, those are the best candidates. I’ve said that myself many times. I myself who am more or less a natural (taught myself game from observation and close analysis long before the word was invented, from some combination of 1 & 2 beginnings, thus erasing most of my anti-game.) Though reading Mystery and esp. Roissy did have the ! result, though I was doing most but not all things right. I mean since early middle school or maybe forever I’ve been in favor of male psychosexual dominance and NEVER bought the feminist doctrine to the contrary. That said, how to pull that off early one, what with all my nice guy early programming, took effort and determination.

I do think that center betas who aren’t real leaders of men, can move up to greater beta abilities with girls if they really grok an practice game. Probably not higher barring special circumstances. I mean if you’re really not good with people of either sex, except in a following way, dunno. Seems unlikely to me.

Haha, initially, I always read ‘OneSTDV’ as ‘OneSTD’ and wondered why one would to admit to his one sexual transmitted disease on one’s blog. Later, it appears he wants to say that some of his traits is equal to some population mean +/- 1 standard deviation. Didn’t he do any testing that he gives him an point estimate rather than some confidence interval Either way, it is not very impressive. Does he refer to height, iq or something?

Thanks pal. I haven’t been in this “game 2.0” debate but I’ll tell you Roissy had a huge influence on me 2 years ago (to the point where I read his whole archives in a few weeks) and I still read him weekly. I consider him at (or at least near) the cutting edge of game theory through his focus on alpha and societal context of male/female relationships.

That said, no-one has ever written a game resource that trumps the mass-market Mystery Method book. You have to read that multiple times over several years to really get how amazing it is.