

Ask HN: Working as part of an interview, for free? - meesterdude

I recently applied to a startup for a development position. I was told I would do a &quot;trial interview&quot; which was really just a feature implementation they needed. I was sent an NDA which also talked of when to invoice and had &quot;rate: TBD&quot; which i put in my rate next to. the spec was large, and I wasn&#x27;t expected to do all of it, but I implemented the core of it, which was nontrivial; it took me over 25 hours to implement.<p>Now, I just talked with the boss today, and he said I wouldn&#x27;t be paid for that time; that&#x27;s part of the interview, he says. But I sank more than half my work week into this, and thought this was just a 1099 until i may or may not go on full time, because i was delivering a business feature and not just doing an arbitrary test.<p>Anyway, what should I do? I&#x27;m not so worried if I get the job, but if I don&#x27;t then I feel like I&#x27;ve been cheated.
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mtmail
If you sent back the NDA, it mentions an invoice, you included your rate and
they accepted the document you might now have a valid contract.

A lawyer will sort this out for you. Until then enjoy the classic 'f*ck you,
pay me' video [https://vimeo.com/22053820](https://vimeo.com/22053820)

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lsiebert
Actually, if you signed a contract and provided a rate, and they accepted it
and they didn't pay you, they have (I am not a lawyer so in my opinion and
this isn't legal advice) violated the contract. That may mean the NDA is not
enforceable, depending on the terms.

If you have not been paid then you also still have copyright over the code.

For small claims, I think you want to be able to prove that you invoiced them,
then serve them.

Or talk to a lawyer.

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davismwfl
Personally, whichever startup did this is a douchebag and I wouldn't want to
work for them regardless.

I have never heard of an interview done this way. I am familiar with and okay
with a coding test, ok with a proof of your abilities, not ok with
implementing code for the company sans payment.

My 2 cents, is they agreed to a price and code so they should pay. Frankly,
I'd ask an attorney to send them a letter stating as much on your behalf.
Might cost you a few bucks but seems reasonable. If they still refuse, I'd
seriously consider a public shaming, although I know this isn't likely a good
idea, it just seems so appropriate. lol

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thekonqueror
Dilbert covered the same topic today [0]

[0]:
[http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-08-01](http://dilbert.com/strip/2015-08-01)

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steven2012
Companies that don't compensate interviewees for their time working on actual
features are not the type of company you want to work for.

Culture is set from the top and it sounds like the company culture sucks.
Don't join them and I hope you didn't send in the code.

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anon3_
I see kickstarters trying to use this to weasel out free work.

If they're engaging in such activity, their financial predicament probably
isn't too good to begin with.

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stray
What should you do? Stop whining.

If they didn't tell you upfront that you'd be compensated for your time -- you
have no reasonable expectation of getting compensated for your time.

More than likely that "business feature" is the same task they give every
applicant -- they just want to see how you do with something that looks like a
real-world task.

We do that here: We have a fake project that we pull a fake task out of, and
have applicants pair with one of us on its solution. During the "work", the
boss will throw us a couple curve balls too -- it's interesting to see how
applicants react.

We do however, pay them a modest amount for their time.

~~~
meesterdude
i would not take issue if this was a fake project meant to test my skillset.
it's replacing app functionality with a more robust solution; it is a feature
request for a change to be made to production which i implemented the core of.

It is very clear that this will go on to be user facing. What is not is if i
will receive any kind of reimbursement for doing the work; or if this is just
a tactic they employ: get people to work for free in an interview, don't hire
them, repeat. I truly hope that is not the case.

~~~
stray
Each of our applicants believes the fake task we give them is meant for
production too.

In reality, it's a very old, inactive project. We simply adjust timestamps to
make it _look_ current.

It is presented as if it were the bread and butter of our biggest client. And
we do our best to make everything seem realistic.

I doubt any applicant, before being hired, has ever figured out that the
"feature" they had worked on was something that had been built dozens of times
already.

It's always the same.

The "product" they're working on is the remnants of a side-project that went
nowhere.

But like I said, we _do_ pay people for their time unless we hire them. We do
it onsite. And we do one 7-hour workday. And we pay $250.

And we do that mainly so nobody is suspicious that they had been duped into
working for free.

It's _possible_ but imo, unlikely that your work is actually making its way
into a shipping product.

~~~
meesterdude
It sounds like you guys do it a respectable way. But I don't understand why
you can't accept the facts as I present them, as I have given no reason for
you to doubt my claims or abilities to properly assess the situation. Maybe
you think it's just too crazy to be true? Because that's what I'm thinking for
sure... But them be the facts despite my preference of otherwise.

