
Things I wish I knew the day I started Berklee - gnosis
http://sivers.org/berklee
======
dbrannan
I really like the martial arts saying he uses:

"When you are not practicing, someone else is. When you meet him, he will
win".

I remember years ago when I was on the swim team I had missed two practices.
My coach said I had missed 4 practices, and I tried to correct him but he
said, "You missed 2 practices, but your competition did not. So now you are 4
practices behind your competition."

I always remembered that.

~~~
Psyonic
I want to believe that's insightful but I can't seem to interpret it any way
other than a math fail. I could potentially have 10 practices, miss 2.
Opponent has 10, misses 0. Opponent 10 - Me 8 = 2 missed practices... If the
competition did miss the practices, it'd be a wash, so we'd all have
essentially missed 0.

What am I missing here?

~~~
chrisa
I think this is the rationale: In sports (or anything that requires practice),
going some time without practicing actually makes you lose some of the ability
you once had. So in this case, it would take two practices just to get back
what was lost during the break, at which point he would be 4 practices behind.

~~~
ceejayoz
I took it as just "not only have you not improved, but your opponent improved
while you weren't improving too".

~~~
Psyonic
Right, but that still only accounts for +2. If he hadn't improved, it'd be a
wash. Only regression on your part gives a +4.

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hasenj
I like the "be valuable" advice. It's what all college students should keep in
mind.

The point of education is not to get a "certificate" that proves to your
future employers that you went through the motions of education.

The point is to make yourself valuable.

I'm surprised how many people are oblivious to this.

So many people view education as nothing more than "something boring you have
to do so that you get a decent job". Where a decent job is "something boring
that you to do to make a decent living".

There's a contradiction there somewhere: if everything you do is boring, how
"decent" is your living? really.

What's their idea of a decent living? "Getting paid enough to pay the bills
and send the kids to school and make them not have to worry about doing any
work". In other words, a decent living is the ability to make your children's
life just as boring as yours is.

None of this brings any happiness.

~~~
mechanical_fish
_I'm surprised how many people are oblivious to this._

There is little in one's formal educational experience to prepare one for the
concept that one can do work that has real value. So much of what you work on
is an exercise, a problem that has already been solved that you must solve
again for a grade or a prize, after which your work will be thrown away.

~~~
gridspy
It is unfortunate how much programming is replicated by hundreds of
businesses, not shared and then thrown away 3-10 years later.

Thank god for open source and the corresponding increase in code sharing.

~~~
mechanical_fish
That's the idea, all right. Fix a bug or add a module in an open source
project, experience the power of actually making a difference.

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sp4rki
_how much does the world pay people to play video games?_

Actually if you're good enough, plenty of money. It's not a matter of how many
people do it, it's a matter of how much better you are than the many people
that do it are. Amateur programmers shouldn't be making software for Bank of
America, the same way an amateur musician shouldn't be playing for Dream
Theater. The interesting thing is that one generally doesn't notice when you
cross the line that makes you a professional, which is generally delimited by
profitability.

If you can make money with your abilities it's because there are a bunch of
people that can't, but never make the mistake of thinking that because a lot
of people do something it means you can't make money off it. Oh and of course,
the person with such abilities that doesn't take advantage of them to make
money doesn't deserve them (with the exception of the multitalented who
leverages a 'better' skill or the person leveraging those skills in a risk
filled endeavor for larger profits).

~~~
ido

        Oh and of course, the person with such abilities 
        that doesn't take advantage of them to make money
        doesn't deserve them (with the exception of the 
        multitalented who leverages a 'better' skill or 
        the person leveraging those skills in a risk 
        filled endeavor for larger profits).
    

I think I understand what you meant, but I can't completely agree with what
you said - sometimes there are indeed worthy uses of skill for a purpose other
than making money.

~~~
sp4rki
Re-reading the comment I see that I made a mess out of my thoughts. If you're
a business man that knows music hell more power to you right? I meant the
cases where you have people doing amazing things programming, or composing
music, or whatever, but not making any money and having to work in a call
center or a grocery store packing bags. I've seen many people I know make such
retarded choices it's not even funny. Reminds me of Good Will Hunting. It
would have been a complete waste to give the guy such a mind so he can go work
at a construction site right?

~~~
maxawaytoolong
What about Grigori Pereleman?

Is he a complete waste because he declined to take the prize money for his
proofs?

~~~
stoney
Grigori Pereleman would be doing mathematics with or without the prize money.

I think sp4rki's point is that it's a waste if not taking/making the money
means that you have less time to do whatever it is you're good at. E.g. the
artist who could make money from it but chooses not to, and as a result has to
work at the convenience store, and as a result produces less art. Though that
last bit is a bit contentious - maybe working at the convenience store is a
good source of inspiration for that artist.

~~~
maxawaytoolong
_Grigori Pereleman would be doing mathematics with or without the prize
money._

But, according to various accounts he's probably not. He quit doing
mathematics and just lives with his mother and goes to the movies.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Perelman#Withdrawal_fro...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grigori_Perelman#Withdrawal_from_mathematics.3F)

------
RK
I attended music school for a short time after college (not Berklee). After
having done a very tough BS in physics, I found the slow pace of the music
theory classes pretty frustrating. I worked ahead, but not at the pace I
probably could have. I very much agree with his point about not letting others
(i.e. courses) set the pace.

Also, having another degree I think I had a different perspective than many of
the high school graduates that where there with the idea of becoming a rock
star or whatever. Most of the instructors, etc, made their livings by
teaching, playing random gigs, doing essentially anonymous studio work, and
odd jobs. Music is a very hard business. This reality seemed mostly lost on
the majority of the students. I decided that I was probably happier to have a
"real" job and play music on the side.

~~~
antareus
I'm considering the same jump (real job -> music school for a bit). Where did
you go? What'd you make of it? Did you switch out? The first sentence suggests
that you did. I'm perfectly happy to play local venues for the rest of my
life.

------
Zev
_Stay offline. Shut off your computer. Stay in the shed._

I bookmarked this and stopped reading after that. Nice reminder to get back to
coding for me.

~~~
baddox
But not before zipping back to HN to submit that comment. ;)

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unwind
I had huge trouble understanding this, before Googling "Berklee" and realizing
it's short for "Berklee College of Music".

That lead me to think that the author didn't in fact start Berklee, he started
_at_ it. That is not communicated in the title, and also the post itself
contains sentences like this:

 _Luckily, when I was 17, a few months before starting Berklee, I met a man
named Kimo Williams who used to teach at Berklee and convinced me that the
standard pace is for chumps._

So; can we please have an "at" in the HN title, at least? :)

------
osuburger
While I can respect what the author is saying, I don't think everyone should
follow this advice. While I've definitely had my fair share of time spent in
the "shed", working on projects for both school and my own side ideas, I don't
think a true college experience can be had by being like this all the time.
There is nothing wrong with occasionally being distracted by your peers; I've
had lots of great nights going out for a couple drinks on a Wednesday night
just because I can. In the end, it all has to be about balance in my opinion.
Definitely go (far) above the bare minimum, but I know I could never stay sane
without the occasional break or fun night out.

------
alexophile
On point #2 he references his training under Kimo Williams, which he wrote
about at length last year:

<http://sivers.org/kimo>

------
zzzeek
He is right you need to shed a whole lot more than you might be motivated for.

But also, success in the field of music requires a level of social
assertiveness and competence that is way beyond what it is in technology.
Nobody cares about your cool grooves or whatever, you have to fight to stay on
board. But oh you can build my ecommerce site for me ?

I got out of Berklee in '92 and basically dicked around trying to get non-
shitty gigs for a few years, not going to enough jams and auditions, until an
ocean of interest and money came at me to do anything related to computers,
after I had sworn them off to be a musician. I was interested in eating and
not living in a box. The market decided for me on that one - scratch and claw
your way to get some real music gigs, or step into this plush world of "wow
you can program ?". Wish I could play again.

------
sgoranson
Disagree strongly with #6. It's too easy to find counterexamples of brilliant
artists who've created immeasurable value and died penniless. Market value !=
intrinsic value.

~~~
ScottWhigham
This is fairly fascinating to me - I'm a musician as well and love this stuff.
What would have happened if John Coltrane, for example, had done what Miles
Davis did and focused on the business side more?

I wonder, though, if perhaps you are nit-picking on a pithy title? "Be
valuable" doesn't have to mean "learn business at the expense of creating
value in your music", does it?

~~~
sgoranson
I think he was pretty clear with "Making sure you're making money is just a
way of making sure you're doing something of value to others."

Maybe it's like this: getting paid implies your work has value, but your work
may value even if you are not getting paid?

~~~
derefr
Your work _may_ have value, but you won't know for sure; you might just be
heading down the wrong path and producing crap. Getting paid gives you an axis
to measure your efforts upon, which gives you a direction to hill-climb.

------
baddox
> _Berklee is like a library. Everything you need to know is here for the
> taking. It's the best possible environment for you to master your music. But
> nobody will teach you anything. You have to teach yourself._

Sounds _exactly_ like a library, except (I presume) extremely expensive. I
only went to college because I assumed (correctly) that at least a few great
minds would be there. What's the upside to Berklee?

~~~
coliveira
the same: "few great minds would be there"

------
sayemm
I freaking love this, thanks for posting it

A ton of great lines in there, as Derek Sivers is an amazing writer jam-packed
w/ wisdom much like PG, but this is my most fav one out of the pack:

"But the casual ones end up having casual talent and merely casual lives."

------
tomjen3
>When you emerge in a few years, you can ask someone what you missed, and
you'll find it can be summed up in a few minutes.

>The rest was noise you'll be proud you avoided.

Yes -- almost, but you will properly feel that there are one or two things
that you didn't experience that you will miss not being a part of.

~~~
dreaming
Exactly. Important not to overlook the benefits of meeting like minded people
who can help inspire you, or just keep you sane.

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deutronium
Really loved that post.

Especially the quote "The casual ones end up having casual talent and merely
casual lives."

~~~
Gianteye
I'm not sure about that. There are plenty of boring jobs to be had, and quite
a few of them are to be had at Google. I suppose banality and life
satisfaction aren't mutually exclusive, but it's the case for me. Doing
computational database analysis whether at Facebook or at the local grocery
store for me is a bitter kind of hell.

I think I agree with the point, but would refine it. Both talented and
talentless people have the option of living boring lives. The more talent you
have, and the more willing you are to focus and direct it, the more leverage
you have to launch yourself into a fascinating and entertaining lifestyle.

------
thefool
The don't get stuck in the past bit is a fine line you have to walk.

Its dumb to spend your whole creative life simply reproducing ideas that
seemed obvious decades ago. You can get a lot better if you know what other
people did, and then consciously build on it.

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rb2k_
> In just 3 intensive lessons, he taught me 3 semesters of Berklee harmony, so
> on opening day I started in Harmony 4.

> In one intensive lesson, he taught me the whole semester of Arranging 1

I don't know if that actually says something about Berklee or about Music...

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tibbon
Seeing my alama matter on the top of HN was unexpected. Sounds like someone
learned a great deal of life at Berklee- unfortunately many don't.

~~~
narag
Excuse the nit picking, I hope you'll like to know: _alma mater_ is Latin for
"feeding mother".

------
LiveTheDream
"Do not expect the teachers to teach you."

I am all about teaching yourself and internal thirst for knowledge, but this
is a bit depressing.

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zackattack
his tales about kimo make me wonder why they don't hire kimo to come in and
restructure their courses.

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jeberle
Certainly one of these things should have been that the school was founded by
Lee Berk, who thought the name "Berklee" was good in light of UC Berkeley!

~~~
jeberle
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berklee_College_of_Music#Histor...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berklee_College_of_Music#History)

------
nolite
this is my new hero

~~~
lanstein
this is my old hero

