
Matias Click Switches: Tactile mechanical keyswitches - arm
http://matias.ca/switches/click/
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tylerjwilk00
This article is lying or perhaps I am misunderstanding.

The article states: "Cherry switches are linear — by definition, not tactile.
They lack a click leaf, which is required for tactile feedback."

I have used and built several mechanical keyboards with Cherry MX Blue
switches. They _are_ non-linear and _do_ include a click leaf which gives the
Cherry MX Blue [1] its characteristic "bump" feel and click.

[1] [https://ergodox-ez.com/pages/keyswitches](https://ergodox-
ez.com/pages/keyswitches)

~~~
kw71
They are also not very honest about "Cherry copied our backlighting idea" \-
all the MX I ever saw have a hole for a 3mm LED, and I'm sure I saw other
vendors selling backlit keyboards with MX switches even if Cherry itself was
late to this game. I think it's all retarded, and it's not very innovative by
itself to replace blue diodes or whatever with multicolor diodes. Whatever
will sell to kids eh?

~~~
orev
Cherry has been around for decades, far longer than the idea of backlit
keyboards existed. Obviously at some point that became a thing so they would
have added the hole.

~~~
kw71
Before the backlit keyboards became a thing, the hole was meant for a lamp to
shine through a window in the keycap, like caps lock.

The first Alps keyboard (Zenith SuperSport) I had actually had a lamp and
window on the caps lock key!

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sz4kerto
I have a Matias Ergo Pro. It's a brilliant split keyboard. Great quiet but
tactile switches, tenting, etc.

But the QC is terrible. The interconnect cable had connection issues, keys are
often 'stuck' (not physically, just keeps repeating until I press it again),
etc.

And the internet is full with complaints. It's a pity, but I would not
recommend them right now. (I've sent it back then got a new one with exactly
the same issues, then I didn't bother in the end even though I paid more than
200 Euros for it.)

~~~
tuananh
for me, the problem is the key (pressing 1 time resulting in 2 chars, not sure
what's the proper term for that)

~~~
tincholio
key chatter is the term you're looking for. You can usually fix it in your OS
keyboard settings (increasing a bit the repeat delay)

~~~
tuananh
but it just happens to a single key. i think it's defect rather than os
settings

~~~
swampangel
It is a physical problem with the key. You can fix it by disassembling the key
and cleaning the contacts:

Original guide - [https://imgur.com/a/elAFF#0](https://imgur.com/a/elAFF#0)

Thread with context -
[https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2hjct6...](https://www.reddit.com/r/MechanicalKeyboards/comments/2hjct6/help_opening_a_matias_switch/)

However, this is really Matias's problem to resolve. Supposedly the switch or
the assembly process has been redesigned to prevent this problem in the newest
batch, but I don't know if it's a proven success.

~~~
tuananh
thanks for the tip but i have moved on to other boards. this was a few years
back.

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rlonstein
I've gone through a lot of keyboards. IBM, Unicomp, Sun Type 4 and 5, Apple
ALPS with ADB converter, a bunch with various Cherry switches including Filco,
Leupold, etc.

I had two Matias keyboards, the tactile pro (I think original) and the 2, and
while the switches are okay neither held up to daily use with keys that
wobbled, cracked plastic, and both suffered from keybounce and had poor NKRO
(enough that I noticed it in Emacs). No thanks.

I settled on a KUL tenkeyless board with Cherry Green key switches[1] which
feel similar to buckling spring and it takes up less deskspace. The caps have
worn slick and the printing nearly gone but the feel is still good.

[1]
[https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green](https://deskthority.net/wiki/Cherry_MX_Green)

~~~
yla92
Did you manage to try HHKB Topre ?

~~~
rlonstein
> Did you manage to try HHKB Topre ?

I used a colleague's for part of a day. I didn't like it-- key feel or
layout-- which saved me a few hundred dollars. As a bit of a collector, I'll
probably get a Realforce eventually.

~~~
yla92
The layout is a bit awkward at first, mainly due to no arrow keys. I switched
to HHKB from Poker 3 (another keyboard with 40% layout). Even then I had a
brief amount of hard times adjusting to HHKB. Nowadays, I use both of them at
home and office and love them.

I heard Realforce are pretty good too!

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jmull
I loved my Matias keyboards, but they just did not last.

After a while I’d start getting dead keys and double-characters. Pulling the
key caps, blowing some air, and putting them back on helps... for a while.
Ultimately, it was too frustrating and now I’m back to an un-clacky keyboard
:( oh, well.

~~~
sleepybrett
Yeah the Matias Alps clone switches are notorious for accumulating crap inside
the switch causing them to need to be cleaned to maintain working order.

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tuananh
I love matias switches, however my experience with them is terrible. i got
replacement twice (3 boards), however, none of them work properly.

~~~
mseidl
I have a keyboard with a mathias silent switches, but I'm replacing it with a
Pok3r with browns. I like the browns better.

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bovermyer
I have two mechanical keyboards. One is a Corsair K70 with Cherry reds that I
use for gaming at home. The other is a Velocifire T11 with brown (non-Cherry)
switches that I bought for $37 on Amazon, which I use at work.

The K70 I've had for at least 5 years now, and it still works flawlessly. The
T11 I've had for about a year and a half, and it also works flawlessly.

~~~
ssebastianj
My first (and current) mechanical keyboard was a Corsair K70 non-RGB with
Cherry MX Browns. I don't game so I use it mostly for work-related tasks:
programming, writing docs, books. I'm quite happy with it so far.

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Pingk
I have a Matias Quiet Pro Mini (2016) and it's by far the most comfortable
mech I've tried (Cherry brown, red, blue and black. Would like to try clear
and green).

From what I've heard their QC has improved over the past couple of years, and
I've not had any problems with mine. They're also working on PBT keycaps which
should arrive in a few months.

The dream would be a Planck or Preonic with Matias switches...

~~~
zaarn
I do recommend trying Clears. I have a natural heavy typing, I do hammer keys
with extreme force if they have any more way than cheap rubberdome keyboards.

The clears are very nice to type on though I wish I would have had a chance to
try the superblacks. I'm looking into ways to increase the force on the
switches for a while now, springs have been suggested at some point.

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amelius
Halfbaked idea: somebody should start a service where you upload a 3d design
of a keyboard, including a mapping of keys to keycodes, and they will build
the keyboard for you.

~~~
nicwest
so while it's not exactly the all in one service you describe, you can do
something similar already:

[http://www.keyboard-layout-editor.com/](http://www.keyboard-layout-
editor.com/)

to design your layout, then

[http://builder.swillkb.com/](http://builder.swillkb.com/)

to design a layer case, files go to a laser cutting service,

then you would need a controller of some sort (commonly something like a
[https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/](https://www.pjrc.com/teensy/)), switches,
diodes, usb ports, etc.

then hand wire everything together.

tmk/qmk is more or less a defacto standard in custom keyboard firmware:

[https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware](https://github.com/qmk/qmk_firmware)

here are some examples of people generating firmware with webtools, I don't
know what they use on the backend.

[https://www.massdrop.com/configurator/ergodox](https://www.massdrop.com/configurator/ergodox)

[http://qmk.thevankeyboards.com/](http://qmk.thevankeyboards.com/)

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sleepybrett
Matias switches are knockoffs of the classic Alps switches you might find in
an older apple, dell or SGI board. However their tacticle is nowhere near as
good as classic brown alps. They also have a reputation for collecting dirt,
causing them to need to be cleaned to stay in good working order.

My suggestion, just go with cherry or their knockoffs unless you really really
want to use a classic set of alps keycaps.

------
jonloldrup
Having tendon issues in my wrists, I would love a linear keyboard with gentle
push down force. Or at least just gentle push down force. Any suggestions?

~~~
jdietrich
The Gateron Clear switch is the lightest linear switch currently available,
with an actuation force of about 30g - half that of a typical membrane key
switch and 50% less than the Cherry MX Red linear switch. It's not a
particularly popular switch, because it's so light that the weight of your
fingers tends to cause accidental keypresses on the home row. Nonetheless, you
can buy a KBParadise V60 keyboard with Gateron clears. The Qisan Magicforce 68
is occasionally available with Gateron clear switches. Alternatively, you
could buy the keyswitches and build a keyboard to your own specifications
using a bare keyboard PCB.

[http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_...](http://www.mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_list&c=248)

[https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gateron-Clear-switch-3-pin-for-
mech...](https://www.ebay.com/itm/Gateron-Clear-switch-3-pin-for-mechanical-
keyboard-65-90-110-200-pcs-/253338042226)

[https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_det...](https://mechanicalkeyboards.com/shop/index.php?l=product_detail&p=536)

~~~
cjbprime
Seconded Gateron Clears (though I've heard the activation force is more like
35g than 30g). I use them on a Noppoo Choc Mini.

I'm a fast typist (around 130wpm) and use these switches just to try to
improve speed, rather than anything relating to health. They're also great for
gaming for me, playing Starcraft 2.

Another option around 35g is non-mechanical electro capacitive switches in the
style of Topre, e.g. [https://www.nizkeyboard.com/product/plum-84-ec-
mechanical-ke...](https://www.nizkeyboard.com/product/plum-84-ec-mechanical-
keyboard-rgb-or-non-rgb/)

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tuananh
anyone participated in their 60% groupbuy? it's been 4 years but nothing is
concrete yet :(

[https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.0](https://geekhack.org/index.php?topic=65528.0)
[http://matias.ca/60/pc/](http://matias.ca/60/pc/)

