Look, I think it's generally understood that Nolan can't write female characters. But out of the meager few that he wrote, which babe do you think had the best relationship/connection with Bruce Wayne? I would actually (from the acting) go with Talia just because of Bruce's reaction at her betrayal. I mean, he dropped his Batman voice...

Dark Guardian

09-23-2012 05:49 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Selina, hands down.
She struggles with her selfish desires and criminal tendencies, but in the end proves herself to Bruce by returning when she could have left. Again and again she makes the choice in favor of him after struggling with it. (At least, after the betrayal to Bane.)
I feel their connection is by far the deepest and truest, as it had to be earned on both sides. Rachel left Bruce because she didn't understand his mission, and of course Talia hated him for letting her father die. But Selina left behind her criminal life to fight for him.

The Batman

09-23-2012 05:49 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Inb4adelugeofselinakyleposts

to be fair, thats what happens when selina is the only decently written love interest

Nevincer

09-23-2012 06:51 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batman
(Post 24363539)

Inb4adelugeofselinakyleposts

to be fair, thats what happens when selina is the only decently written love interest

Agreed. This thread's fate was sealed before it was made, the "competition" hardly has any supporters even from the radical marion leg humping crowd so it'll be another string of Selina praising and Talia bashing :oldrazz: Maybe you'll get that odd newbie troll who takes the opposing position just for the sake of it. Fact of the matter is Miranda Tate hardly had any chemistry with Bruce... she could have but then no real care was taken in that character or her subplot.

The Joker

09-23-2012 07:25 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Selina for the better match, Rachel for the emotional connection.

BlueLightning

09-23-2012 08:30 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

One of the greatest surprises of TDKR was that Bruce was given at last a great romantic interest. And I'm not talking about Talia. Selina Kyle wins this hands down.

In Begins and TDK, Rachel Dawes filled a role of the romantic interest, but it was different. She represented hope for a better life, and Bruce idealized her to the point he didn't realized that, at the end, she didn't fully share his viewpoints and goals. That is not necessarily bad, because she had her own arc. She really loved Bruce, but as she said at the end of Begins, the man she loved didn't fully returned. So she was split inside. Then came Harvey Dent into her life and she saw something better for her, thinking that Bruce could never stop being Batman. In TDK that's her deal, and she makes a choice, a choice Bruce didn't know because Alfred didn't want to hurt him even more.

And then, in TDKR, eight years later we encounter and older Bruce who is frozen in time. Batman is no longer needed, and Bruce has nothing else to live for. Though it isn't an instant process. We learn that he tried to help people, with the donations of the Wayne Foundation to orphanages, and the energy project. And when that project seems to dangerous it is another defeat.

Then we bring to the game Selina Kyle and Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul. We all know the evil intentions of Talia's plan, but we must also analyze the impact it has on Bruce. She is presented, by both Alfred and Lucius, as a "quite lovely" woman. These two man wants the best for Bruce. She represents the hope for a better life that Rachel was, but he is reluctant to accept it. It is more clearly displayed in the mansion scene, where Talia and Bruce enter by another door to the mansion, Talia finds the Rachel picture and asks who she is. Then as Talia approaches to kiss Bruce, there is an instant where Bruce pauses and reflects all of these, and then he kisses her. But all of these is a manipulative ruse to bring Bruce to his weakest point, she uses Rachel as an advantage, and among many other things, makes Bruce vulnerable.

And the star of the show is Selina Kyle. It is displayed in the first scene, when Selina steals Bruce fingerprints and his mother pearl necklace. He doesn't act annoyed or particularly mad. At the end, he is fascinated by this new woman who dared to go to these lenghts to steal at Wayne Manor. He is obviously attracted to her as well. As a good detective, he finds information about her, but also another thing. She is trying to begin a new life, a normal life. Something that Bruce deeply wanted too. And he sees good in her. It is a different thing from Rachel, because Selina is a broken person who has the potential for good. In a way, she is like Gotham City, a fractured place where there is still "good people". And Bruce/Batman arrival in Selina/Catwoman's life brings the good in her. They complement each other, and it shows in the witty banter's they have in the ballroom scene and when Bruce comes to visit her in the apartment scene. I love that in the end of the scene, Selina feels bad for Bruce predicament, and Bruce gallantly shrugs it off. They play each other well.

And while Bruce is fascinated by Selina, Selina is as well fascinated by Bruce. Though she shows appreciation for Batman, when she betrays him delivering him to Bane and learns that he is Bruce Wayne, there is pain in her eyes. She can't do nothing to help him, not yet at least. Bruce is also torn between these two great women. But as Talia's Miranda represent a part of his past that he has to overcome, Selina represents a unexpected new hope for a better life.

And the betrayal of Talia at the end of the film, hurts Bruce deeply. He was given a false hope, and it is truly a great scene. But he realizes that he has to move on. Selina arrives to save him, in more than one way. They have developed the beginning of a relationship, but it is Selina who save Bruce from his imposed destiny. She showed him that there is more to live. At the beginning of the film, Bruce is almost only waiting death, and Alfred is worried that he wants to die in his mission of Batman. When Batman flies over the ocean with the bomb, there is a nice moment when Batman reflects on all of this. Even though he can save himself, in my opinion, he may be thinking as well "This would be a good death…". It is great moment when we learn that he decided to save himself, he learned that he can confront and overcame all of the pain in his life, and that, despite his contrary belief, he can be happy.

So they both saved each other in many levels. It was great and one of the things I loved most about the film.

In short, Selina Kyle.

Zatanna

09-23-2012 08:52 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Neither woman developed a "deep" connection with him in my view. Selina did not have that many scenes with Batman nor Bruce in order to fully build a connection/relationship that concludes running away together when the dust settled from the battle in Gotham. I've seen the film 3 times and I just didn't feel it. Doesn't seem like Bruce feels it either by the way he reacts to her kiss. And Talia/Miranda? It's not even really worth mentioning because it was manipulation and complete lack of caring on her side.

When it comes to who Bruce Wayne shared the deepest connection with, when you look at all 3 films and all 3 women, it's Rachel, even if she didn't "understand his mission", which I don't think is entirely true. She couldn't handle it.

Zatanna

09-23-2012 08:52 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batman
(Post 24363539)

Inb4adelugeofselinakyleposts

Right?

BatLobsterRises

09-23-2012 09:18 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueLightning
(Post 24364115)

One of the greatest surprises of TDKR was that Bruce was given at last a great romantic interest. And I'm not talking about Talia. Selina Kyle wins this hands down.

In Begins and TDK, Rachel Dawes filled a role of the romantic interest, but it was different. She represented hope for a better life, and Bruce idealized her to the point he didn't realized that, at the end, she didn't fully share his viewpoints and goals. That is not necessarily bad, because she had her own arc. She really loved Bruce, but as she said at the end of Begins, the man she loved didn't fully returned. So she was split inside. Then came Harvey Dent into her life and she saw something better for her, thinking that Bruce could never stop being Batman. In TDK that's her deal, and she makes a choice, a choice Bruce didn't know because Alfred didn't want to hurt him even more.

And then, in TDKR, eight years later we encounter and older Bruce who is frozen in time. Batman is no longer needed, and Bruce has nothing else to live for. Though it isn't an instant process. We learn that he tried to help people, with the donations of the Wayne Foundation to orphanages, and the energy project. And when that project seems to dangerous it is another defeat.

Then we bring to the game Selina Kyle and Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul. We all know the evil intentions of Talia's plan, but we must also analyze the impact it has on Bruce. She is presented, by both Alfred and Lucius, as a "quite lovely" woman. These two man wants the best for Bruce. She represents the hope for a better life that Rachel was, but he is reluctant to accept it. It is more clearly displayed in the mansion scene, where Talia and Bruce enter by another door to the mansion, Talia finds the Rachel picture and asks who she is. Then as Talia approaches to kiss Bruce, there is an instant where Bruce pauses and reflects all of these, and then he kisses her. But all of these is a manipulative ruse to bring Bruce to his weakest point, she uses Rachel as an advantage, and among many other things, makes Bruce vulnerable.

And the star of the show is Selina Kyle. It is displayed in the first scene, when Selina steals Bruce fingerprints and his mother pearl necklace. He doesn't act annoyed or particularly mad. At the end, he is fascinated by this new woman who dared to go to these lenghts to steal at Wayne Manor. He is obviously attracted to her as well. As a good detective, he finds information about her, but also another thing. She is trying to begin a new life, a normal life. Something that Bruce deeply wanted too. And he sees good in her. It is a different thing from Rachel, because Selina is a broken person who has the potential for good. In a way, she is like Gotham City, a fractured place where there is still "good people". And Bruce/Batman arrival in Selina/Catwoman's life brings the good in her. They complement each other, and it shows in the witty banter's they have in the ballroom scene and when Bruce comes to visit her in the apartment scene. I love that in the end of the scene, Selina feels bad for Bruce predicament, and Bruce gallantly shrugs it off. They play each other well.

And while Bruce is fascinated by Selina, Selina is as well fascinated by Bruce. Though she shows appreciation for Batman, when she betrays him delivering him to Bane and learns that he is Bruce Wayne, there is pain in her eyes. She can't do nothing to help him, not yet at least. Bruce is also torn between these two great women. But as Talia's Miranda represent a part of his past that he has to overcome, Selina represents a unexpected new hope for a better life.

And the betrayal of Talia at the end of the film, hurts Bruce deeply. He was given a false hope, and it is truly a great scene. But he realizes that he has to move on. Selina arrives to save him, in more than one way. They have developed the beginning of a relationship, but it is Selina who save Bruce from his imposed destiny. She showed him that there is more to live. At the beginning of the film, Bruce is almost only waiting death, and Alfred is worried that he wants to die in his mission of Batman. When Batman flies over the ocean with the bomb, there is a nice moment when Batman reflects on all of this. Even though he can save himself, in my opinion, he may be thinking as well "This would be a good death…". It is great moment when we learn that he decided to save himself, he learned that he can confront and overcame all of the pain in his life, and that, despite his contrary belief, he can be happy.

So they both saved each other in many levels. It was great and one of the things I loved most about the film.

In short, Selina Kyle.

Great post. You highlighted why I don't believe that Tate/Talia was a wasted character, and how she carries the thematic threads of not only Ra's, but Rachel too. What's interesting is that in the end, she could be seen as Bane's "Rachel". I had never thought about Miranda representing Bruce's past and Selina representing his future until you put it like that, but it makes perfect sense.

Origin

09-23-2012 09:35 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Holly 'Jen' Robinson.
The sexual tension between her and Bruce in Selina's hallway :wow:

The Batman

09-23-2012 09:38 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevincer
(Post 24363739)

Agreed. This thread's fate was sealed before it was made, the "competition" hardly has any supporters even from the radical marion leg humping crowd so it'll be another string of Selina praising and Talia bashing :oldrazz: Maybe you'll get that odd newbie troll who takes the opposing position just for the sake of it. Fact of the matter is Miranda Tate hardly had any chemistry with Bruce... she could have but then no real care was taken in that character or her subplot.

Pretty much sums it up.

Basically, This thread should just be merged with the anne thread, lmao

rickfox

09-23-2012 09:39 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueLightning
(Post 24364115)

One of the greatest surprises of TDKR was that Bruce was given at last a great romantic interest. And I'm not talking about Talia. Selina Kyle wins this hands down.

In Begins and TDK, Rachel Dawes filled a role of the romantic interest, but it was different. She represented hope for a better life, and Bruce idealized her to the point he didn't realized that, at the end, she didn't fully share his viewpoints and goals. That is not necessarily bad, because she had her own arc. She really loved Bruce, but as she said at the end of Begins, the man she loved didn't fully returned. So she was split inside. Then came Harvey Dent into her life and she saw something better for her, thinking that Bruce could never stop being Batman. In TDK that's her deal, and she makes a choice, a choice Bruce didn't know because Alfred didn't want to hurt him even more.

And then, in TDKR, eight years later we encounter and older Bruce who is frozen in time. Batman is no longer needed, and Bruce has nothing else to live for. Though it isn't an instant process. We learn that he tried to help people, with the donations of the Wayne Foundation to orphanages, and the energy project. And when that project seems to dangerous it is another defeat.

Then we bring to the game Selina Kyle and Miranda Tate/Talia al Ghul. We all know the evil intentions of Talia's plan, but we must also analyze the impact it has on Bruce. She is presented, by both Alfred and Lucius, as a "quite lovely" woman. These two man wants the best for Bruce. She represents the hope for a better life that Rachel was, but he is reluctant to accept it. It is more clearly displayed in the mansion scene, where Talia and Bruce enter by another door to the mansion, Talia finds the Rachel picture and asks who she is. Then as Talia approaches to kiss Bruce, there is an instant where Bruce pauses and reflects all of these, and then he kisses her. But all of these is a manipulative ruse to bring Bruce to his weakest point, she uses Rachel as an advantage, and among many other things, makes Bruce vulnerable.

And the star of the show is Selina Kyle. It is displayed in the first scene, when Selina steals Bruce fingerprints and his mother pearl necklace. He doesn't act annoyed or particularly mad. At the end, he is fascinated by this new woman who dared to go to these lenghts to steal at Wayne Manor. He is obviously attracted to her as well. As a good detective, he finds information about her, but also another thing. She is trying to begin a new life, a normal life. Something that Bruce deeply wanted too. And he sees good in her. It is a different thing from Rachel, because Selina is a broken person who has the potential for good. In a way, she is like Gotham City, a fractured place where there is still "good people". And Bruce/Batman arrival in Selina/Catwoman's life brings the good in her. They complement each other, and it shows in the witty banter's they have in the ballroom scene and when Bruce comes to visit her in the apartment scene. I love that in the end of the scene, Selina feels bad for Bruce predicament, and Bruce gallantly shrugs it off. They play each other well.

And while Bruce is fascinated by Selina, Selina is as well fascinated by Bruce. Though she shows appreciation for Batman, when she betrays him delivering him to Bane and learns that he is Bruce Wayne, there is pain in her eyes. She can't do nothing to help him, not yet at least. Bruce is also torn between these two great women. But as Talia's Miranda represent a part of his past that he has to overcome, Selina represents a unexpected new hope for a better life.

And the betrayal of Talia at the end of the film, hurts Bruce deeply. He was given a false hope, and it is truly a great scene. But he realizes that he has to move on. Selina arrives to save him, in more than one way. They have developed the beginning of a relationship, but it is Selina who save Bruce from his imposed destiny. She showed him that there is more to live. At the beginning of the film, Bruce is almost only waiting death, and Alfred is worried that he wants to die in his mission of Batman. When Batman flies over the ocean with the bomb, there is a nice moment when Batman reflects on all of this. Even though he can save himself, in my opinion, he may be thinking as well "This would be a good death…". It is great moment when we learn that he decided to save himself, he learned that he can confront and overcame all of the pain in his life, and that, despite his contrary belief, he can be happy.

So they both saved each other in many levels. It was great and one of the things I loved most about the film.

In short, Selina Kyle.

well said

kthevs

09-24-2012 10:07 AM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zatanna
(Post 24364179)

Neither woman developed a "deep" connection with him in my view. Selina did not have that many scenes with Batman nor Bruce in order to fully build a connection/relationship that concludes running away together when the dust settled from the battle in Gotham. I've seen the film 3 times and I just didn't feel it. Doesn't seem like Bruce feels it either by the way he reacts to her kiss. And Talia/Miranda? It's not even really worth mentioning because it was manipulation and complete lack of caring on her side.

When it comes to who Bruce Wayne shared the deepest connection with, when you look at all 3 films and all 3 women, it's Rachel, even if she didn't "understand his mission", which I don't think is entirely true. She couldn't handle it.

Nolan doesn't spell everything it in the movie. The official novel does a great job of showing the connection between Bruce and Selina. He effects her in a way that no man ever has. And the last kiss,I don't know what you're talking about because he clearly enjoys both kisses. In the book it talks about how passionate the last kiss is and how he kisses her back and how he wishes the moment could go on longer and that they had more time together. Just the fact that he gives her his mother's pearls speaks volumes.

Their bond is the true one. Bruce and Rachel didn't have much of a bond as adults. She could never understand him, which is why she chose Harvey over him and didn't even bother to tell him that in person.

But of course, you've proven yourself to be very anti Bruce/Selina in the past, so your comment here doesn't surprise anyone. But all that being said, please don't make things up by acting like Bruce reacted poorly to Selina's kisses. That is simply not true.

Fudgie

09-24-2012 10:37 AM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Selina Kyle wins by default because Tate was the most boring under used female love interest I've ever seen in a Batman movie.

Van Petrol

09-24-2012 12:22 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevincer
(Post 24363739)

Agreed. This thread's fate was sealed before it was made, the "competition" hardly has any supporters even from the radical marion leg humping crowd so it'll be another string of Selina praising and Talia bashing :oldrazz: Maybe you'll get that odd newbie troll who takes the opposing position just for the sake of it. Fact of the matter is Miranda Tate hardly had any chemistry with Bruce... she could have but then no real care was taken in that character or her subplot.

This.

AnneFan

09-24-2012 06:49 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Batman
(Post 24364395)

Basically, This thread should just be merged with the anne thread, lmao

:funny: True.

Zatanna

09-24-2012 06:52 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by kthevs
(Post 24366081)

But of course, you've proven yourself to be very anti Bruce/Selina in the past, so your comment here doesn't surprise anyone.

I have? I'm pretty sure I've explained before that I'm not. It's not my preference, but I don't dislike them as a couple. That's quite an assumption just because my POV is that Bruce/Selina here, in TDKR, doesn't work. IMO. You can't seem to get that and you never let me alone with my opinion. You always have to argue.

For the record, I loved Bruce and Selina in Batman Returns. I thought they worked, and Bruce shined with her more 1000 x more than Vicki Vale.

But frankly, I'm really tired of you and your negative comments toward me and about me, so I think it's just time to put you on ignore. It will be easier that way. Maybe you should do the same, because you can't refrain from insulting me over a fictional couple and telling me I "make things up". It's as if you follow me around just to get after me for my differing opinion.

Baramos

09-24-2012 07:14 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

In this movie? Both were pretty shallow and confusing...Talia's motive for sleeping with him, without the Damian subplot from the comic books, made little sense, unless as just one more little "screw you" in her mental torture plot. Selina didn't seem romantically connected until it was just sort of shoe-horned in at the end.

I guess Rachel by default, then. She had two movies, after all.

The Batman

09-24-2012 09:43 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zatanna
(Post 24368177)

It's as if you follow me around just to get after me for my differing opinion.

Don't worry, Kthevs pretty much does that to anybody who dosent think that Bruce/Selina is the greatest love story since Gone with the Wind. :woot::oldrazz:

rickfox

09-24-2012 09:50 PM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Baramos
(Post 24368293)

In this movie? Both were pretty shallow and confusing...Talia's motive for sleeping with him, without the Damian subplot from the comic books, made little sense, unless as just one more little "screw you" in her mental torture plot. Selina didn't seem romantically connected until it was just sort of shoe-horned in at the end.

I guess Rachel by default, then. She had two movies, after all.

.........................................eh

Frodo

09-25-2012 12:38 AM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

Its Kinda Rachel by default, but he clearly had more chemistry with Selina who was more interesting , and she was frankly more i and likeable then Rachel was , or at least Rachel was portrayed in TDK. Talia could have been good if she had been handled better and not given the standard revenge plot.

kewlmatto

09-25-2012 05:05 AM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

I think a few years after the events of TDKR, the answer would inevitably be Selina.

But based on what we did see in the Nolan Trilogy, the answer is definitely Rachel in my opinion.

Bruce sees good in Selina and feels a connection, but it is more based on hope than any previous knowledge or understanding.

With Rachel, they were childhood friends, they both grieved for the loss of the Waynes, they both desperately craved for justice in Gotham, which would mean a chance to begin their relationship in earnest.

Rachel had a past with Bruce - even though it was often kept at arm's length, it was much of his motivation in becoming Batman in the first place.

With Selina, we only see the very beginning of this kind of relationship. Bruce plays Rachel's part, inspiring Selina to be a better person - just like Rachel once did for Bruce. There's a fair amount of symmetry, but thematically Rachel is the character who had the deeper connection.

rickfox

09-25-2012 05:26 AM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

allow me make direct quotation from someone's conversation

Q: I like your thoughts on TDKR so I’m curious… do you think that Bruce was totally in seclusion those 8 years or do you think he slowly ended up in it sort of unintentionally as he got more and more depressed? I have a theory of sorts that he started out trying to help Gotham in a way that only Bruce Wayne could, with the energy project working with Miranda since Batman was no longer something he could use to help the city and that was something that kept him “alive” so to speak until he realized that his energy project could be used as a weapon. In the beginning at the Harvey Dent Day gala, it is mentioned that Bruce hasn’t been seen at “one of these things” in years, however it doesn’t say how many years. I assumed at one point in time he might have actually shown himself in person at them, even if only briefly. So I feel like perhaps after the energy project went south, that’s when he really started feeling the loss of Rachel and shutting himself off from the world, and away from anyone who reminded him of Rachel, thus shutting out Miranda who had this view of the world similar to Rachel (even if it was part of her disguise). His depression was then further fueled by believing that there was nothing he could do as Bruce Wayne to help Gotham. Thoughts? Feel free to copy & paste all parts of this to your blog if you want to give your thoughts publicly.

A: have a theory of sorts that he started out trying to help Gotham in a way that only Bruce Wayne could, with the energy project working with Miranda since Batman was no longer something he could use to help the city and that was something that kept him “alive” so to speak until he realized that his energy project could be used as a weapon. In the beginning at the Harvey Dent Day gala, it is mentioned that Bruce hasn’t been seen at “one of these things” in years, however it doesn’t say how many years. I assumed at one point in time he might have actually shown himself in person at them, even if only briefly. So I feel like perhaps after the energy project went south, that’s when he really started feeling the loss of Rachel and shutting himself off from the world, and away from anyone who reminded him of Rachel, thus shutting out Miranda who had this view of the world similar to Rachel (even if it was part of her disguise). His depression was then further fueled by believing that there was nothing he could do as Bruce Wayne to help Gotham. Thoughts? Feel free to copy & paste all parts of this to your blog if you want to give your thoughts publicly. Great question! I don’t think he was totally secluded in the eight years, but he developed a pattern that enabled him to be reclusive. Once Bruce let Batman take the fall for Harvey Dent’s crimes, he also let Batman retire, and yes, he used his power as Bruce Wayne for philanthropy. He developed the boys’ orphanage (oh those poor boy orphans!) and the clean energy project, until it was proven by Dr Pavel that the fusion reactor could be used to create a nuclear weapon.
Perhaps, after that, Bruce felt all that Bruce Wayne could offer was just as futile as Batman’s mission, and he somehow fell into merely existing. With Rachel as his only beacon for a post-Batman life, and add to that his prolonged grief and physical deterioration, well, he didn’t really have much impetus to “move on”, as it were. “There’s nothing out there for me” he says to Alfred. But he manages to exist because he still believes that he would have had a future with Rachel had she not died (of course, that illusion is later shattered by Alfred).
Remember what Alfred says: how afraid he is that Batman will return, and not just that but return to fail. Later he says:

You see only one end to your journey. Leaving is all I have to make you understand, you’re not Batman anymore. You have to find another way. You used to talk about finishing a life beyond that awful cape.

He knows that Bruce Wayne would be more useful to Gotham than Batman is, but he also knows Bruce is stuck at a gridlock despite hanging up the cape and cowl, that Bruce has a kind of perverse death wish. So Alfred does the one thing that might sway Bruce to think about his own livelihood and future—he leaves Bruce. We can’t imagine how painful it must have been for Alfred to watch his master and friend wither away for such a long time. Then we get this golden line:

I am using the truth, Master Wayne. Maybe it’s time we all stop trying to outsmart the truth and let it have its day. I’m sorry.

Of course what Alfred unwittingly did (or not?) is he left Bruce vulnerable to said “truths”, namely, wide open to Miranda’s manipulation, but I think there’s great poignancy in that Bruce needed to “fall” even deeper to learn how to pick himself up again, indeed to learn that truth will out, and that he could unshackle himself from his own structures, for which he was rewarded by the end.
Alfred needs a hug. Or two

Q:My thoughts abt "I like your place": Selina first meets Bruce in *his* place - that room with the safe, and the photos, and some objets d'art, was where Bruce chose to have his dinner for 8 years. Selina's apartment is amazingly similar to that room: dark, intimate, but decorated w/beautiful objects. Imo, Bruce is acknowledging that they have similar tastes, that they're compatible. That he sees what she likes & he appreciates her style. (And that they could - and will! - live together one day.)

A:I tried to have a closer look at Selina’s apartment—for instance, there’s a pile of books she has that I’d love to have identified! You’re right, for all its “thriftiness”, Selina’s things are just as opulent and tasteful as Wayne Manor’s, but they seem more “at home” than the things in Wayne Manor. The way Selina dresses also reflects that. She’s very much in casualwear, in her pullover and her ballet flats, but she gives off an air of cool confidence and cosiness. I think Bruce is innately drawn to that dual darkness and warmth. It’s cute how this is symbolic, at least superficially, of Bruce and Selina being matched in their personal tastes.

source-http://thebatandthecat.tumblr.com/

rickfox

09-25-2012 05:31 AM

Re: Which female character shared a deeper connection w/ Bruce?

This is now my fourth viewing of TDKR, but I decided to go to IMAX again—when your city has the one of the largest screens in the world, well, it’d be a pity not to go again. Was trying to identify scenes that used IMAX cameras, but I kept forgetting to check when I got sucked into said scenes. Might have to go again. :P I went with a friend who hadn’t seen it yet so it was nice to see her reactions as twists happened. I envy first timers because nothing compares with your first experience of the total immersive bombardment of the senses.
I feel I know the film by heart, in terms of sequence and dialogue, but I still look for nuances, mainly in facial expressions and voices.

Selina’s satisfied smirk, after she guns down the debris at a bridge, which then turns grim, as though having second thoughts.

The only overt sign of jealousy practically dripping in Selina’s tone as she revs up the Batpod re: “waging war for his stuck-up girlfriend”

The slightly hesitant lilt in Bruce’s voice in Selina’s apartment, the way he averts his eyes from Selina’s as he compliments her home.

The music that plays when Bruce follows Selina to the society gala (combo of Begins’ “Nycteris” and Selina’s theme)—very suave.

There’s another part I’ve decided is my favourite part of the whole Bruce/Selina dance too: after she makes her hissing speech about the coming storm into his ear, she pulls back, and just watch her fingers gliding back into place over his shoulder. It’s restrained, but it’s playful, sensual, and a bit aggressive and clingy too.

Was wondering also, how on earth did Bruce manage to dance with that crippled leg? Did he just glide across the floor?

“He’s behind you” always has me flailing

Selina’s glassy eyes are so palpable as she watches Bane and Batman fight, as though she’s rooted to the spot, unable to look away. And this time I especially noted her flinching backwards when Batman took a hit. You don’t often see the cat so visibly shocked.

Turns out Selina had another line cut out, when Holly hugs Selina from behind and says “storm’s coming, remember? it’s what you wanted” Selina in the script/novel says “it’s what I thought I wanted”. That was an oversight by the editor. Seriously that line is a pivotal turning point in Selina’s development. But maybe the “this was someone’s home” was suggestive enough of that.

Fox is really impressed with Bruce’s girlfriend … :D

I love how Batman simply assumes Selina will continue to help him. I love that Selina is helping him. “I need you on the ground …” Logic compels me to add on that she helped put some kind of salve on his gaping knife wound, but somehow I don’t think that eventuated.

The blink-and-you’ll-miss-Bruce-and-Selina-in-Florence still overwhelms me—it’s so damn short!

Really cannot wait for the DVD/blu-ray release so we can really nitpick the whole thing. And lucky us, we get it on November 28