I just watched the ladies' highlights on Eurosport, and Chris & Simon essentially said the same thing Elvis did: Yu-Na was clearly the best, but Mao was also very strong and 3A combos should be worth more - as should quads and quad combos in the men's. It's not an unreasonable argument, although Elvis could do a better job of presenting it.

No, I don't agree. If Mao wants to close the point differential with Yuna, she should execute her jumps better, which includes fully rotating her jumps, including the 2t of her 3a-2t combo. It's only fair.

I thought Mao and Yu-Na were pretty close but I wasn't writing down anything they did, comparing what GOE I'd have given them , or checking the protocols for changes according to the technical specialist. One's opinion of a skate just from watching can be very different if one is just watching and enjoying rather than marking the performances. As to the GOE on Mao's 3ax, I don't think anyone should get positive GOE if there's any question whether or not the jump was fully rotated in the air. She did it and it was clean. Bravo for her, truly, but it wasn't worth a huge GOE.

If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

I don't think you can compare the ladies' and men's situations that easily. 3-3 combinations are still extremely rare among the ladies. So are 3xs, I grant you, but in the men's, 3-3 are more common at the top. I think both Kim and Asada deserve credit for pushing the envelope. And Kim's program is much better, which I think accounts for a lot of the big difference. (I hope Mao gets a better coach/choreo.)

And yes, this is more of Elvis pushing his jumps above everything platform. I hate to see him keep doing this. I was always a fan, and I would think even he would acknowledge that his skating improved so much in other ways throughout his career, even as his quads left him. I just sigh and try to think back fondly on his deeds, not his words.

If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

I watched the super slowmo too. For a minute, I was worried that the 3toe of the 3lutz/3toe would be downgraded. I don't remember if they did a slowmo on Rachel's 3lutz(?)/3toe combo.

If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

Actually Yuna's flip was fully rotated, but even JP commentators said Mao's flip was giri-giri (borderline).

Also if they'd dinged Yuna & Mao for UR, almost everyone else would've received DGs.

Actually Yuna's flip was fully rotated, but even JP commentators said Mao's flip was giri-giri (borderline).

Also if they'd dinged Yuna & Mao for UR, almost everyone else would've received DGs.

That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

Huh?

Yuna's jumps were all fully rotated.

Don't be a hater unless you actually have something more substantive to say because you're basic your accusation on...what?

That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

Regardless of the rotation issue, there is a major difference between Mao and Yuna's combos: Mao takes forever to setup her combo, and she just gets it done while Yuna goes at it at super-sonic speed, has amazing height on BOTH jumps and great flow of it. Doesn't that warrant higher GOES? Besides, Yuna's combo has a 0.5 difference in base value. That's almost 2.5 points difference right there.

If that was the case, Kim should not get huge GOE on her triple triple combo. Her 3T was barely rotated.
Her flip was also barely rotated. NBC showed a super slowmo at the end.
Both girls barely rotated their jumps, just one get bigger GOE?

I'm actually with you on the 3F - I think both girls were fine and should have gotten lots of +GOe - but Mao's 2T after her 3A was nowhere near fully rotated. Fully expected a DG.

That's why I said her jumps were barely rotated. I didn't say she was UR. NBC showed a slowmo replay and they were borderline. So, for someone to say Mao didn't deserve good GOE because she barely rotated her jumps, that rule should also apply to Kim.

They're not borderline. Yuna's jumps look at most 45 degrees UR, which is permitted under the rules which allows up to 90 degrees under-rotation. Mao's double toe looked conspicuously under-rotated to me--a single rotation at most.

I watched the super slowmo too. For a minute, I was worried that the 3toe of the 3lutz/3toe would be downgraded. I don't remember if they did a slowmo on Rachel's 3lutz(?)/3toe combo.

Yes they showed Rachael and the second jump and maybe both on her 3x3 was ur'ed. . Even Scott said so and he rarely goes against an American skater. Her solo 3Lutz was also questionable and sloppy.
Rachael and Miki were treated very kindly last night as both made mistakes.

Yes the 3 Axel is a difficult jump, but a 3/3 combination is more difficult than a 3A/2 combination. The double toe is the easiest jump that you will see performed by elite skaters. It is a jump that some adult skaters can land - tacking it onto a 3A is not an impressive feat in and of itself - the triple axel is the only impressive thing about such a combination. Most elite senior (and actually probably junior too) skaters can tack a double toe on the end of any jump.

Ant? How can you say 3A-2T is easier than 3-3 when many (lady) skaters have done the latter and a tiny handful the former? And as for tacking on the 2T - correct me if I'm wrong since I"m not a technical person, but aren't skaters often omitting to tack it on because they lack speed or the first jump wasn't landed quite right? I don't think it's to be minimized... esp. after a 3A!

I think Stojko is helping to focus a debate, so why the problem with his speaking up? He seems to enjoy being in the thick of controversy. Not every former champion would be up for that.