I just read the ESPN chat with Rob Neyer during the allstar game heres a few quotes...

scott Phx, Az: Any truth to this? The Boston Red Sox have an agreement to trade Nomar to the Chicago White Sox, with White Sox to trade prospects to Arizona, who send Randy Johnson to Boston. MLB trying to hold announcement off until tomorrow, as it generally does not allow significant announcements day of All-Star game.
Rob Neyer: (11:11 PM ET ) Judging from the questions I've seen tonight, this is the hot rumor. All I can tell you is that this is the first I've heard of such a deal. Of course the Diamondbacks could use prospects and the Red Sox could use Johnson . . . but why would the White Sox want Garciaparra? Last I checked, Valentin was doing a pretty good job at shortstop

Tom (Chicago): Last you checked Valentin's doing a good job at shortstop? When was the last time you checked, 2000? Why can't just 1 member of the media pay attention to the White Sox before speaking like an authority?
Rob Neyer: (11:18 PM ET ) Actually, I just looked at the White Sox's team stats a couple of weeks ago. But I'll look again . . . Jeez, Tom, how much beer have you had tonight? Valentin's got a .548 slugging percentage, second best on the team. So I'll ask again, why would the White Sox want Garciaparra?

Tom (Chicago): Valentin's almost definitely the worst fielding shortstop in the majors. He gets thrown out on the bases a little more than once a week. He's striking out at an unbelievable pace this year. And he's getting 5 million a year to do all of this and hit .255 a year. Why wouldn't the Sox want Garciaparra?
Rob Neyer: (11:23 PM ET ) He's not the worst-fielding shortstop in the majors. Not even close. Valentin makes up for his errors with good range and a strong arm. Look, it's the 21st century . . . can't we stop talking about stupid fielding percentage?

This guy Tom seems like your typical WSI pessimist....

My question here is, and realizing this trade is nothing more than rumor because no one credible has been quoted on it, if we do have the prospects that AZ wants for RJ, why dont WE JUST KEEP HIM FOR OURSELVES AND TO HELL WITH NOMAR??????

WSox8404

07-14-2004, 12:59 AM

Hmmm.....If this happens, I don't know what to think. I assume Valentine would DH? Maybe Frank is out for the year. This would make sense then. Valentine DH and Nomar at short.

Aidan

07-14-2004, 01:00 AM

My question here is, and realizing this trade is nothing more than rumor because no one credible has been quoted on it, if we do have the prospects that AZ wants for RJ, why dont WE JUST KEEP HIM FOR OURSELVES AND TO HELL WITH NOMAR?????? Because RJ is making $16 million this season and next season. Nomar would be a free agent after this season and could be signed for less than Maggs.
Hmmm.....If this happens, I don't know what to think. I assume Valentine would DH? Maybe Frank is out for the year. This would make sense then. Valentine DH and Nomar at short. Who is Valentine? Bobby Valentine? :tongue: Just kidding. Yes, I think Nomar would play SS and Valentin would be DH. But I definately think Valentin and Nomar would alternate between SS and DH to give each other days off from the field.

TornLabrum

07-14-2004, 01:01 AM

The last I heard, Valentin had made two errors in his last 42 games, and that was a couple of games ago. I just love when Sox fans talk out of their asses.

WSox8404

07-14-2004, 01:02 AM

Because RJ is making $16 million this season and next season. Nomar would be a free agent after this season and could be signed for less than Maggs.
Good point. Didn't think about that. Too bad Nomar ain't a lefty. That is if we do indeed get him.

guillen4life13

07-14-2004, 01:05 AM

Hmmm.....If this happens, I don't know what to think. I assume Valentine would DH? Maybe Frank is out for the year. This would make sense then. Valentine DH and Nomar at short.
I mean you no disrespect when I say this, but it's Jose Valentin, without the extra "e" at the end.

I've never been able to understand why this is such a common mistake. Is there something I'm missing here?

WSox8404

07-14-2004, 01:08 AM

I mean you no disrespect when I say this, but it's Jose Valentin, without the extra "e" at the end.

I've never been able to understand why this is such a common mistake. Is there something I'm missing here?
I always do it. Anytime I type his damn name in the E just comes out of nowhere. I guess it comes from Valentine's day. Because last I checked there was no Valentin's day. :tongue:

OurBitchinMinny

07-14-2004, 01:15 AM

I just read the ESPN chat with Rob Neyer during the allstar game heres a few quotes...

scott Phx, Az: Any truth to this? The Boston Red Sox have an agreement to trade Nomar to the Chicago White Sox, with White Sox to trade prospects to Arizona, who send Randy Johnson to Boston. MLB trying to hold announcement off until tomorrow, as it generally does not allow significant announcements day of All-Star game.
Rob Neyer: (11:11 PM ET ) Judging from the questions I've seen tonight, this is the hot rumor. All I can tell you is that this is the first I've heard of such a deal. Of course the Diamondbacks could use prospects and the Red Sox could use Johnson . . . but why would the White Sox want Garciaparra? Last I checked, Valentin was doing a pretty good job at shortstop

Tom (Chicago): Last you checked Valentin's doing a good job at shortstop? When was the last time you checked, 2000? Why can't just 1 member of the media pay attention to the White Sox before speaking like an authority?
Rob Neyer: (11:18 PM ET ) Actually, I just looked at the White Sox's team stats a couple of weeks ago. But I'll look again . . . Jeez, Tom, how much beer have you had tonight? Valentin's got a .548 slugging percentage, second best on the team. So I'll ask again, why would the White Sox want Garciaparra?

Tom (Chicago): Valentin's almost definitely the worst fielding shortstop in the majors. He gets thrown out on the bases a little more than once a week. He's striking out at an unbelievable pace this year. And he's getting 5 million a year to do all of this and hit .255 a year. Why wouldn't the Sox want Garciaparra?
Rob Neyer: (11:23 PM ET ) He's not the worst-fielding shortstop in the majors. Not even close. Valentin makes up for his errors with good range and a strong arm. Look, it's the 21st century . . . can't we stop talking about stupid fielding percentage?

This guy Tom seems like your typical WSI pessimist....

My question here is, and realizing this trade is nothing more than rumor because no one credible has been quoted on it, if we do have the prospects that AZ wants for RJ, why dont WE JUST KEEP HIM FOR OURSELVES AND TO HELL WITH NOMAR??????

Sounds like this Tom guy is a dumb ass. My apologies to you Tom if you post on this board

FarWestChicago

07-14-2004, 01:42 AM

This guy Tom seems like your typical WSI pessimist....Sounds more like an old FOB to me.

:buddylee

My guys still got my back!

WhiteSox = Life

07-14-2004, 03:10 AM

Because last I checked there was no Valentin's day. :tongue:
... Yet. Perhaps Mr. Boyer could market a Valentin's Day at the park. I think it'd be quite fun.

If Jose were willing to go through with it, he could wear a red glove, a red cap (though no red stockings), perhaps use a red bat, etc. A lucky fan (male or female) in the stands could win a chance to have a dinner with Jose later that night (probably would work best if the game were held during the day). Just (a crazy idea and) a fun little promotion, and I'm sure there's tons of other stuff that could go into it.

:bandance:

fquaye149

07-14-2004, 06:28 AM

Sounds more like an old FOB to me.

:buddylee

My guys still got my back!

better still, he probably still supports royce the choice

samram

07-14-2004, 07:14 AM

... Yet. Perhaps Mr. Boyer could market a Valentin's Day at the park. I think it'd be quite fun.

If Jose were willing to go through with it, he could wear a red glove, a red cap (though no red stockings), perhaps use a red bat, etc. A lucky fan (male or female) in the stands could win a chance to have a dinner with Jose later that night (probably would work best if the game were held during the day). Just (a crazy idea and) a fun little promotion, and I'm sure there's tons of other stuff that could go into it.

:bandance:
They should hand out fake mustaches at the gate.

samram

07-14-2004, 07:20 AM

My question here is, and realizing this trade is nothing more than rumor because no one credible has been quoted on it, if we do have the prospects that AZ wants for RJ, why dont WE JUST KEEP HIM FOR OURSELVES AND TO HELL WITH NOMAR??????
Yeah, this deal just doesn't make sense. People just seem to overlook the fact that the prospects it would take to get Nomar are lesser than those it would take to get Johnson, yet it is assumed that the White Sox would be giving up all the prospects for AZ, but only getting Nomar in return. I could see if the Sox gave up Nomar-worthy prospects (whoever that would be) and then Boston adds more to get Johnson. However, since no version of this rumor has that scenario, I just don't see how it can be good for the Sox.

ChiSoxBobette

07-14-2004, 07:30 AM

Hmmm.....If this happens, I don't know what to think. I assume Valentine would DH? Maybe Frank is out for the year. This would make sense then. Valentine DH and Nomar at short.
Yeah that would make this trade make sense , but I wonder why everyone wants this guy nomar, I've watched him since he's come back and if not for some pretty good fielding 1st basemen in Boston Nomar's really not playing any better than Jose and as far as hitting nomar does'nt have the power Jose does. I would much rather the White Sox got some bullpen help and maybe some lefthanded power off the bench. But if Frank is'nt coming back the trade for Nomar would be fine Jose could then DH.

JoseCanseco6969

07-14-2004, 08:18 AM

I mean you no disrespect when I say this, but it's Jose Valentin, without the extra "e" at the end.

I've never been able to understand why this is such a common mistake. Is there something I'm missing here?
it is probably the most annoying typo i've ever come across here on this board!

misty60481

07-14-2004, 08:41 AM

THE Score this morning had Nomar going to Scrubs for minor leaguers Randy To Boston and Az. getting prospects, the Sox could only have Nomar for half a year I dont think he would sign for another, not worth giving up good prospects especially since Jose has been so valuable this year...

DaveIsHere

07-14-2004, 09:27 AM

Then again you were listening to The Score 670 Flub radio

daveeym

07-14-2004, 09:32 AM

THE Score this morning had Nomar going to Scrubs for minor leaguers Randy To Boston and Az. getting prospects, the Sox could only have Nomar for half a year I dont think he would sign for another, not worth giving up good prospects especially since Jose has been so valuable this year... It still wouldn't help them, they're the flubs, it would just add more hype and pressure to all of em.

soxtalker

07-14-2004, 09:40 AM

THE Score this morning had Nomar going to Scrubs for minor leaguers Randy To Boston and Az. getting prospects, the Sox could only have Nomar for half a year I dont think he would sign for another, not worth giving up good prospects especially since Jose has been so valuable this year...
Never understood the White Sox in this one. Valentin has been playing well as of late, so SS is not a high priority for us. And that's assuming Nomar is playing well. It certainly isn't worth trading away our better prospects. If anything, we'd want RJ. A trade involving the Cubs instead of the White Sox makes much more sense. The Cubs need a SS, have more prospects to burn, and have less need (not that anyone can't use) for an ace starting pitcher.

PorkChopExpress

07-14-2004, 10:14 AM

They should hand out fake mustaches at the gate.
:rolling: That would be fickin' hilarious!

OzzieBall2004

07-14-2004, 12:38 PM

They should hand out fake mustaches at the gate.

Ugh....that reminds me of all those A holes at the flubs games with their clement goatees....lets leave the fake facial hair to the yuppies. :smile:

OzzieBall2004

07-14-2004, 12:40 PM

Because RJ is making $16 million this season and next season. Nomar would be a free agent after this season and could be signed for less than Maggs.

Nomar will not resign with Chicago. That was widely reported when the trade was rumored about nomar for maggs over the offseason. if he leaves Boston, he's going west, where he's from.

gobears1987

07-14-2004, 12:41 PM

That deal won't go down and is ****. I would see a Beltran trade more likely than anything.

the_valenstache

07-14-2004, 01:27 PM

They should hand out fake mustaches at the gate.

Bingo. I'm in.

SoxFan76

07-14-2004, 02:23 PM

I'm embarassed that Tom from the chat is a Sox fan. If you post here, sorry, but that was kind of embarassing.

Basten

07-14-2004, 02:48 PM

This guy Tom seems like your typical WSI pessimist....

No, this guy Tom seems like your typical ****ing idiot.

Basten

07-14-2004, 03:00 PM

THE Score this morning had Nomar going to Scrubs for minor leaguers Randy To Boston and Az. getting prospects, the Sox could only have Nomar for half a year I dont think he would sign for another, not worth giving up good prospects especially since Jose has been so valuable this year...Unbelievable.

White Sox need an ace and a player of Randy Johnson's profile WAY more than the Red Sox do (we're fighting for fans and attention; they aren't), and could put a better prospect package together.

I am sick and tired of hearing this 16 Mill crap - he makes 10 next year, the rest is deferred, and should Sox make it to ALCS (that's 5 home games of pure money gravy), along with regular season revenue boost, playoff TV sharing and then Comcast dough kicking in 2005 -- all that would pay for Unit's salary next year and then some.

Does RJ dislike Midwest so much he is willing to sell his soul to East Coast, after all the rhetoric in the past how he'll never go there?

soxtalker

07-14-2004, 04:57 PM

Unbelievable.

White Sox need an ace and a player of Randy Johnson's profile WAY more than the Red Sox do (we're fighting for fans and attention; they aren't), and could put a better prospect package together.

...
That would be an interesting argument to make around New England. I think that the fans there, if they cared to make an argument, would point out that the Red Sox are 7 games behind the Yankees. I went to school in Boston many years ago and go back to visit at least once per year. Their view of their position compared to the Yankees isn't quite the way we view the Cubs, but it is close. If the Red Sox pull off this deal with the Cubs, it is truly a credit to their GM. They would not only obtain the best pitcher on the market, but they would also eliminate a major problem in Nomar.

pearso66

07-14-2004, 05:08 PM

Unbelievable.

White Sox need an ace and a player of Randy Johnson's profile WAY more than the Red Sox do (we're fighting for fans and attention; they aren't), and could put a better prospect package together.

I am sick and tired of hearing this 16 Mill crap - he makes 10 next year, the rest is deferred, and should Sox make it to ALCS (that's 5 home games of pure money gravy), along with regular season revenue boost, playoff TV sharing and then Comcast dough kicking in 2005 -- all that would pay for Unit's salary next year and then some.

Does RJ dislike Midwest so much he is willing to sell his soul to East Coast, after all the rhetoric in the past how he'll never go there?
He is making 16 mil, I dont care if it is all next year or somewhat deferred. And if we make it to the ALCS that isn't necessarily 5 home games. It could be as little as 3. But I think we could make it even without RJ.

Basten

07-14-2004, 05:18 PM

That would be an interesting argument to make around New England. .Doesn't matter where you make this arguement; reality is reality.

White Sox are the ones fighting for its fanbase, they are the ones having to stave off the Kubbie onslaught -- god forbid they win the World Series before we do -- and they have a team good enough THIS year, making it that much more urgent for the Sox to get RJ and maybe another bat.

Randy Johnson not only doubles our chances in the playoffs, but his off-field, symbolic value to the Sox would be immense as well. Forget about a 15,000 walk-up crowd greeting Robbie Alomar last year - this one would be much bigger and more lasting.

Red Sox? They have a HUGE guaranteed follwing and very deep pockets. They fail to make playoffs in 2004, so what? They'll still have a 100-120 Mill payroll in 2005. And unlike the White Sox who could deliver a big blow to the Cubs by winning a WS or two before the Cubs do, Carmines could NEVER in a million of years attain bragging rights over the Yankees. Not gonna happen.

So yeah, now that Loaiza has lost his 2003 magic, our need for a Randy Johnson is much greater than management and fans will allow themselves to admit.

If Sox are willing to spend on Jason Kendall or Kris Benson or whatever, it would be a travesty if they don't make their BEST run at Unit.

Use whatever prospects, try to play on NY-Boston rivalry or Colangelo's grudges, whatever I don't care. Get it done.

pearso66

07-14-2004, 05:21 PM

Playing the NY/Boston fued may be the best way to get RJ. Send SS or someone over to the Yankees for their catching prospect, and send him, and a couple more to Arizona for RJ. There is no way that the Yankees can get him, but you know they don't want Boston to get Randy

Basten

07-14-2004, 05:31 PM

He is making 16 mil, I dont care if it is all next year or somewhat deferred. And if we make it to the ALCS that isn't necessarily 5 home games. It could be as little as 3. But I think we could make it even without RJ.
You may not care about deferred dough, but JR surely does.

Ok, let's say it's only 3 or 4 home games -- that's still a lot of money, plus aformentioned effect he could have on regular season attendance, concessions, merch. and memorabilia sales, ratings, media attention. Then you playoff revenue sharing, then Comcast deal beginning in 2005.......

Sox CAN afford Randy Johnson, believe me.

And even if things don't work out as planned, Sox could always trade him in the off-season to, well......NY or Boston or whichever team wants him bad enough to overpay.

As far as making ALCS without him......Anything is possible. However, Randy Johnson is not only a big improvement in Game 1 and 4 of ALDS, but he also takes the pressure off iGarcia and Buerhle, which means Sox have a better chance at winning Game 2 and 3 as well.

Basten

07-14-2004, 05:41 PM

Playing the NY/Boston fued may be the best way to get RJ. Send SS or someone over to the Yankees for their catching prospect, and send him, and a couple more to Arizona for RJ. There is no way that the Yankees can get him, but you know they don't want Boston to get Randy
SS = Scott Schoenweiss? Maybe when he was 7-2 with 3.50 ERA, he had solid trade value, but now? Very little. His solid Road ERA and low salary are his only saving grace, but until he shows he has recovered from his back/albow ailment by stringing together a couple of quality outings, Sox might as well keep him cuz they'll get nothing in return.

I am thinking if Sox were to get RJ, they'd have to give up Garland, Anderson, Rauch as the bare minimum and maybe another prospect or two. Which is fine by me.

pearso66

07-14-2004, 05:56 PM

SS = Scott Schoenweiss? Maybe when he was 7-2 with 3.50 ERA, he had solid trade value, but now? Very little. His solid Road ERA and low salary are his only saving grace, but until he shows he has recovered from his back/albow ailment by stringing together a couple of quality outings, Sox might as well keep him cuz they'll get nothing in return.

I am thinking if Sox were to get RJ, they'd have to give up Garland, Anderson, Rauch as the bare minimum and maybe another prospect or two. Which is fine by me.
yes Schoenewies, He still has value to the Yankees who need pitching, left handed pitching especially. And if this trade required the sox to give up Garland, I wouldn't do it.

Basten

07-14-2004, 06:00 PM

yes Schoenewies, He still has value to the Yankees who need pitching, left handed pitching especially. And if this trade required the sox to give up Garland, I wouldn't do it.
Since Garland is as good as gone as a FA after 2005 (no love lost between him and the Sox, nor do I think he is worth overpaying for), what you're saying is that you'd rather have 2 years of Garland than 2 years of Randy Johnson.

:o:

The Tom

07-14-2004, 06:30 PM

Since Garland is as good as gone as a FA after 2005 (no love lost between him and the Sox, nor do I think he is worth overpaying for), what you're saying is that you'd rather have 2 years of Garland than 2 years of Randy Johnson.

:o:
Garland's bitterness with the Sox was over the short hook that Jerry Manuel had with him over the last couple of years. This year, Ozzie has given him the chance to finish games. Therefore there is no reason to think we can't re-sign him.
RJ is definitely a better pitcher than Garland at this point, but we would ONLY get 2 years out of him. I think people forget to easily that Garland is still ONLY 24. Most pitchers dont even reach the majors by his age and he's been a regular starter for going on his fourth year.
I think he is on the verge of breaking out. If we can get him signed for relatively cheap before that happens, we could have a great one our hands for years to come. It would be nice to have RJ on the staff, but it would take Garland and several other top prospects from an already shallow system to get him.

Therefore, I say we try to add a catcher or bullpen help, and make the stretch run with some of our young guys still on board.

Basten

07-14-2004, 06:58 PM

Garland's bitterness with the Sox was over the short hook that Jerry Manuel had with him over the last couple of years. This year, Ozzie has given him the chance to finish games. Therefore there is no reason to think we can't re-sign him.
RJ is definitely a better pitcher than Garland at this point, but we would ONLY get 2 years out of him. I think people forget to easily that Garland is still ONLY 24. Most pitchers dont even reach the majors by his age and he's been a regular starter for going on his fourth year.
I think he is on the verge of breaking out. If we can get him signed for relatively cheap before that happens, we could have a great one our hands for years to come. It would be nice to have RJ on the staff, but it would take Garland and several other top prospects from an already shallow system to get him.

Therefore, I say we try to add a catcher or bullpen help, and make the stretch run with some of our young guys still on board."Would be nice to have RJ on the staff"? If by "nice" you mean "fun-****ing-tastic", then I agree.

As far as getting RJ for "only 2 years", you say it as if that's not enough. I would take 2 years of RJ over 20 years of Garland. I am tired of Judy's perennial mediocrity.

And our great farm system has produced one pitcher who was good right off the bat. Mark "The Exception" Buerhle. Anderson? Munoz? Rauch? Diaz? Arizona, take your pick -- I'd rather Sox try to, I dunno.....WIN THE WORLD SERIES IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS.

mmmmmbeeer

07-14-2004, 07:02 PM

Red Sox? They have a HUGE guaranteed follwing and very deep pockets. They fail to make playoffs in 2004, so what? They'll still have a 100-120 Mill payroll in 2005. And unlike the White Sox who could deliver a big blow to the Cubs by winning a WS or two before the Cubs do, Carmines could NEVER in a million of years attain bragging rights over the Yankees. Not gonna happen.

Boston will lose Nomah, Pedro, Varitek, Lowe, Ortiz (don't think he's resigned yet) and Nixon (although I think he just signed a 3yr deal). Boston is taking a do or die approach this year. Their GM has said that he has a goal of rebuilding their farm system so that they have the ability to go out and trade for missing components in the future, instead of being stuck in the position they're in now where money is the only thing at the trade deadline that they can offer. Boston is looking to win this year and I guarantee you that they will go after RJ with everything they have.

The Tom

07-14-2004, 07:10 PM

"Would be nice to have RJ on the staff"? If by "nice" you mean "fun-****ing-tastic", then I agree.

As far as getting RJ for "only 2 years", you say it as if that's not enough. I would take 2 years of RJ over 20 years of Garland. I am tired of Judy's perennial mediocrity.

And our great farm system has produced one pitcher who was good right off the bat. Mark "The Exception" Buerhle. Anderson? Munoz? Rauch? Diaz? Arizona, take your pick -- I'd rather Sox try to, I dunno.....WIN THE WORLD SERIES IN THE NEXT 2 YEARS.
I never claimed that the Sox had a great farm system. I did say, however, that we shouldn't deplete an already shallow one. Garland's still young, he could develop into a quality starter. RJ would be a great addition, in the series "The Exception" and Garcia would both pitch every third day. Do you send Loaiza to the pen? RJ is one of the greatest pitchers to ever play, but he doesn't add enough to our team to ensure us the World Series. I'm just saying keep chemistry the way it is and make a run at it.

It's a mute point anyways, because RJ wouldnt wave his no-trade to play in Chicago anyways.

Basten

07-14-2004, 07:13 PM

Boston will lose Nomah, Pedro, Varitek, Lowe, Ortiz (don't think he's resigned yet) and Nixon (although I think he just signed a 3yr deal). Boston is taking a do or die approach this year. Their GM has said that he has a goal of rebuilding their farm system so that they have the ability to go out and trade for missing components in the future, instead of being stuck in the position they're in now where money is the only thing at the trade deadline that they can offer. Boston is looking to win this year and I guarantee you that they will go after RJ with everything they have.

Is Washed-up Nomah "everything they have", then?

You're missing the point: Boston WILL HAVE A TON OF MONEY NEXT YEAR regardless of whether they win the WS or fail to make it to the playoffs. They are a rich team, with huge huge local and national following, and even when they'll be "rebuilding" (read: reloading), they'll have a ton of dough to acquire whatever pieces they feel they need.

Meanwhile, White Sox's payroll is HALF of that of Boston despite being the 2nd highest ever for this franchise. Sox are just beginning to see re-newed interest in the team -- what with ballpark renovations, competitive team and all. That precious momentum has to be capitalized on at ANY cost, and Randy Johnson would give this team a huge boost in the regular season and especially in the PLAYOFFS, both on and off the field.

This franchise CANNOT come up short again. It's a matter of survival in this city. Randy Johnsons is available for crying outloud, how often does a chance like this present itself to a team like the White Sox?

Basten

07-14-2004, 07:23 PM

I never claimed that the Sox had a great farm system. I did say, however, that we shouldn't deplete an already shallow one. Garland's still young, he could develop into a quality starter. RJ would be a great addition, in the series "The Exception" and Garcia would both pitch every third day. Do you send Loaiza to the pen? RJ is one of the greatest pitchers to ever play, but he doesn't add enough to our team to ensure us the World Series. I'm just saying keep chemistry the way it is and make a run at it.

It's a mute point anyways, because RJ wouldnt wave his no-trade to play in Chicago anyways.1999 team had "chemistry", too.....Too bad, it has nothing to do with nothing.

With the way Loaiza has pitched recently, I do not want him anywhere NEAR ALDS. He'll be a decent #4 in ALCS, though. If he doesn't like it, then he can do something about it -- namely pitch like he did in the first half of 2003, in which case, the competition for a playoff rotation spot will be THAT much more intense......which is always good.

The farm system will not be depleted after losing Anderson/Borchard, Rauch, Garland and some quality but raw prospect in the Francisco/Rupe mold. Sox still have Cotts, Munoz, Diaz, MaCarthy, Gio Gonzalez, Sweeney, Chris Young, Kris Honel, Spidale, Bajenaru, Fields, Wing and should he ever get healthy Malone. Next year's draft will help fill in the missing pieces as well.

He won't come to Chicago? Do you have a crystal ball or something? 3 weeks ago everyone was saying Arizona won't trade him and he won't wave the clause for ANYONE even if they tried......Guess what? Things change. Minds change.

If RJ has anything left in that noggin' of his, and if he really wants to stick it to the Yankees/Red Sox, he should be able to see the obvious as well as hidden benefits in coming to Chicago.

Paulwny

07-14-2004, 07:53 PM

If RJ has anything left in that noggin' of his, and if he really wants to stick it to the Yankees/Red Sox, he should be able to see the obvious as well as hidden benefits in coming to Chicago.
Maybe RJ sees a different picture.
Curt Schilling stating that he'd never play for JR.
Brian Giles not having the sox, along with a few other teams, listed as a team he'd be willing to be traded to in his contract.
The Frank Thomas contract fiasco.
The inability to sign Ordonez
The bad mouthing of the org by some players who left the team, Durham, etal
The possibility of this being a one shot attempt by JR to go to the WS and a possible dumping/trading of players next year to lower pay-roll.

fquaye149

07-14-2004, 07:55 PM

1999 team had "chemistry", too.....Too bad, it has nothing to do with nothing.

With the way Loaiza has pitched recently, I do not want him anywhere NEAR ALDS. He'll be a decent #4 in ALCS, though. If he doesn't like it, then he can do something about it -- namely pitch like he did in the first half of 2003, in which case, the competition for a playoff rotation spot will be THAT much more intense......which is always good.

The farm system will not be depleted after losing Anderson/Borchard, Rauch, Garland and some quality but raw prospect in the Francisco/Rupe mold. Sox still have Cotts, Munoz, Diaz, MaCarthy, Gio Gonzalez, Sweeney, Chris Young, Kris Honel, Spidale, Bajenaru, Fields, Wing and should he ever get healthy Malone. Next year's draft will help fill in the missing pieces as well.

He won't come to Chicago? Do you have a crystal ball or something? 3 weeks ago everyone was saying Arizona won't trade him and he won't wave the clause for ANYONE even if they tried......Guess what? Things change. Minds change.

If RJ has anything left in that noggin' of his, and if he really wants to stick it to the Yankees/Red Sox, he should be able to see the obvious as well as hidden benefits in coming to Chicago.
give it up. randy johnson's not coming here and i doubt there's any other sp besides kris benson who'll be available to us.

scottyl

07-14-2004, 07:55 PM

Tom (Chicago): Last you checked Valentin's doing a good job at shortstop? When was the last time you checked, 2000? Why can't just 1 member of the media pay attention to the White Sox before speaking like an authority?
Rob Neyer: (11:18 PM ET ) Actually, I just looked at the White Sox's team stats a couple of weeks ago. But I'll look again . . . Jeez, Tom, how much beer have you had tonight? Valentin's got a .548 slugging percentage, second best on the team. So I'll ask again, why would the White Sox want Garciaparra?

Tom (Chicago): Valentin's almost definitely the worst fielding shortstop in the majors. He gets thrown out on the bases a little more than once a week. He's striking out at an unbelievable pace this year. And he's getting 5 million a year to do all of this and hit .255 a year. Why wouldn't the Sox want Garciaparra?
Rob Neyer: (11:23 PM ET ) He's not the worst-fielding shortstop in the majors. Not even close. Valentin makes up for his errors with good range and a strong arm. Look, it's the 21st century . . . can't we stop talking about stupid fielding percentage?

This guy Tom seems like your typical WSI pessimist....

This is from mlb.com's Jose Valentin player file:
2003: ...compiled a .969 (20 E/641 TC) fielding percentage, the second-best figure in his career (.971 in 1995) and an improvement of .013 from his career average entering the season ... the 20 errors were the fewest since also committing 20 at shortstop with Milwaukee in 1997 ... turned 96 double plays, tied for third-most in the AL ...

Jose improved last year, he deserves credit for that.

DickAllen72

07-14-2004, 09:01 PM

give it up. randy johnson's not coming here and i doubt there's any other sp besides kris benson who'll be available to us.

I just heard today that the Expos might put Livan Hernandez on the block.

Maybe we can give them Borchard, Rauch and Burke along with another prospect for Livan, Brian Schneider, and Carl Everett.

They'd be dumping a lot of salary and getting some good young players in return. We'd get a third starter,a starting catcher and a DH to take Thomas' place.

beckett21

07-14-2004, 09:46 PM

give it up. randy johnson's not coming here and i doubt there's any other sp besides kris benson who'll be available to us.Unfortunately I agree.

I will get all worked up and excited about this deal when it happens, which will be never. Not trying to be pessimistic here, just realistic.

All of this RJ talk should be in magenta (or can we still call it deeppink even though technically it is not?) :?:

Fun as it is to dream, I'm not hitching my wagon to this one. Call me for the press conference.

Basten

07-14-2004, 09:54 PM

Two questions:

1. What would Arizona GM want from the Sox in exchange for RJ?

2. What would WSI posters be willing to give up?

Tragg

07-14-2004, 10:22 PM

We've got 5 starters
We need a lefty hitter more than an oft injured 5th starter like benson

OzzieBall2004

07-15-2004, 12:55 AM

I just heard today that the Expos might put Livan Hernandez on the block.

Maybe we can give them Borchard, Rauch and Burke along with another prospect for Livan, Brian Schneider, and Carl Everett.

They'd be dumping a lot of salary and getting some good young players in return. We'd get a third starter,a starting catcher and a DH to take Thomas' place.

I like this deal a lot, but I'd rather throw in Davis instead of Burke. For one Davis isnt batting his weight and isn't even batting the weight of most dogs. Plus he's making 1.4 million so it nevers hurts to cut a little unneccesary payroll. Montreal has a history of getting fleeced anyway, so why not this time? Livans got a pretty good ERA (3.58) and would obviously be boosted by a superior offense.

pearso66

07-15-2004, 01:07 AM

I like this deal a lot, but I'd rather throw in Davis instead of Burke. For one Davis isnt batting his weight and isn't even batting the weight of most dogs. Plus he's making 1.4 million so it nevers hurts to cut a little unneccesary payroll. Montreal has a history of getting fleeced anyway, so why not this time? Livans got a pretty good ERA (3.58) and would obviously be boosted by a superior offense.
Davis may not be hitting well, but he's only 27 while Burke is 32 or 34 I dont remember which. Id rather hold onto borchard if at all possible, especially if they dotn think that Maggs can be resigned.

nasox

07-15-2004, 01:22 AM

I like this deal a lot, but I'd rather throw in Davis instead of Burke. For one Davis isnt batting his weight and isn't even batting the weight of most dogs. Plus he's making 1.4 million so it nevers hurts to cut a little unneccesary payroll. Montreal has a history of getting fleeced anyway, so why not this time? Livans got a pretty good ERA (3.58) and would obviously be boosted by a superior offense.
Also, to support your ideas, Davis isn't a 32 year old catcher that played on nine former teams.

Aidan

07-15-2004, 03:02 AM

Two questions:

1. What would Arizona GM want from the Sox in exchange for RJ?

2. What would WSI posters be willing to give up?I think RJ would cost us Neal Cotts, Felix Diaz, and Brian Anderson. I think Arizona would jump all over this because they need young starting pitchers and young outfielders desperately.

Take a look at the ages of their starting outfield...
Danny Bautista - 32 years old
Steve Finley - 39 years old
Luis Gonzalez - 36 years old

Minus Randy Johnson, their starting rotation is in shambles as well...
Casey Fossum has been a bust for them.
Elmer Dessens is 33 and stinks.
36 year old Shane Reynolds?
39 year old Steve Sparks?

Need I say more?
I just heard today that the Expos might put Livan Hernandez on the block.

Maybe we can give them Borchard, Rauch and Burke along with another prospect for Livan, Brian Schneider, and Carl Everett.

They'd be dumping a lot of salary and getting some good young players in return. We'd get a third starter,a starting catcher and a DH to take Thomas' place.I really like the idea of trading for Livan even more than RJ. Especially if they would take Diaz, Rauch, and/or Cotts. Livan has actually been pitching well with a 3.58 ERA and 102 strikeouts but he gets no run support (6-8 record). He's got a decent contract too. (http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/wire?section=mlb&id=1781647) Since Loaiza, who is 32 years old, is going to want up to $9 million a year next season anyways, we could tell him to go to hell and keep the younger, better Livan (29 years old). Then we would have Livan for three more years at $8 million for 2005 and 2006 and $7 million for 2007. It would cost us less prospects than RJ and we could get a package of Livan and Crazy Carl. Livan could finalize an awesome rotation for us and with Frank out, Crazy Carl could be our switch-hitting DH. Imagine this rotation for the rest of the season...

Freddy Garcia
Mark Buehrle
Livan Hernandez
Jon Garland
Esteban Loaiza

And Schoeneweis could be our lefty long reliever in the bullpen to replace Neal Cotts. If he complains about that we could trade him.

I don't see Montreal trading Brian Schneider though, especially not for Ben Davis. Schneider is is producing very well offensively and only making $350,000 this season. Teams don't trade away good hitting catchers making nothing (Schneider) for awful hitting catchers making $1,400,000 (Davis), especially not the Expos.

owensmouth

07-15-2004, 03:57 AM

Re: the Expos... they may not be dumping anything. Remember, they are being sold soon and moving (probably) to the DC area. They don't have much now and a new owner wouldn't be interested in lowering their quality level.

Basten

07-15-2004, 11:30 AM

I think RJ would cost us Neal Cotts, Felix Diaz, and Brian Anderson. I think Arizona would jump all over this because they need young starting pitchers and young outfielders desperately.

Take a look at the ages of their starting outfield...
Danny Bautista - 32 years old
Steve Finley - 39 years old
Luis Gonzalez - 36 years old

Minus Randy Johnson, their starting rotation is in shambles as well...
Casey Fossum has been a bust for them.
Elmer Dessens is 33 and stinks.
36 year old Shane Reynolds?
39 year old Steve Sparks?

I must say I am disappointed in what I saw from Cotts vs. advertised. His fastball doesn't appear to have the "bizarro slider" movement that was promised, and his breaking ball is inconsistent. He HAS met expectations in one respect though: poor control. The guy has talent, but so did Casey Fossum who was once considered 'untouchable'. When are they planning to stretch Cotts back in starting?

Anderson is an OF, so bye-bye.

Felix Diaz? Another pitcher who was supposed to throw in mid-90's with good movement, but barely touched 92 with average movement in his ML stint. That change-up is very nice, slider is serviceable.....but is this what they meant by Pedro Junior 2 years ago? Giving up a bomb to Rey Ordonez?

Give Arizona another prospect, maybe Spidale (very good OBP, excellent range in CF, seems to be improving) and make the deal. Farm system is weaker, sure, but it's not the end of the world.

RKMeibalane

07-15-2004, 11:42 AM

The last I heard, Valentin had made two errors in his last 42 games, and that was a couple of games ago. I just love when Sox fans talk out of their asses.
It's truly amazing how little some Sox fans really know about what's happening with their favorite team.