
At Least 37M People Have Been Displaced by America’s War on Terror - chishaku
https://www.nytimes.com/2020/09/08/magazine/displaced-war-on-terror.html
======
phobosanomaly
The degree to which ordinary Americans are isolated from the violence of these
conflicts is mind-boggling. The notable absence of car-bombs alone is telling
how privileged we are to be able to lead our lives without fear of getting
murked on the way to Starbucks.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mass_car_bombings)

~~~
ardit33
Mass shootings (either, school shootings, shootings in church, shootings in
clubs, that vegas shooter, the occasional incel shooter, etc.. etc..), are a
form of terrorism, albeit not necessary with political motives.

Most of the world do not experience them either.

~~~
sharkweek
I can say we have been effectively terrorized by mass shootings when things
like this hang in kindergarten classrooms:

[https://i.imgur.com/ztiYy9R.png](https://i.imgur.com/ztiYy9R.png)

~~~
phobosanomaly
It's terrible, right?

But, it's important to contextualize it with the level of violence occurring
in these countries destabilized as a result of US foreign policy. Much of it
makes the violence in the US (as horrific as it is) look like Sesame Street:

"On 9 August 2018, Saudi Arabian expeditionary aircraft bombed a civilian
school bus passing through a crowded market in Dahyan, Saada Governorate,
Yemen, near the border with Saudi Arabia. At least 40 children were killed,
all under 15 years old and most under age 10."

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahyan_air_strike](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dahyan_air_strike)

"MAZAR-I-SHARIF, Afghanistan — Four attacks across Afghanistan on Saturday
night and Sunday killed at least 26 government security officers, while two
schools were also set ablaze, according to Afghan officials."

[https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/15/world/asia/afghanistan-
at...](https://www.nytimes.com/2018/04/15/world/asia/afghanistan-attacks-
schools.html)

"BAGHDAD — A suicide bomber detonated a truck filled with explosives on the
playground of an elementary school in northern Iraq on Sunday morning, killing
13 children and the headmaster, the police said. Shortly afterward, another
suicide truck bomb struck a police station in the same village, killing three
officers."

[https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/world/middleeast/deadly-b...](https://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/07/world/middleeast/deadly-
bombing-at-elementary-school-playground-in-iraq.html)

"HELMAND, Afghanistan/KABUL (Reuters) - At least 40 civilians attending a
wedding party were killed by explosions and gunfire during a raid by
U.S.-backed Afghan government forces on a nearby Islamist militant hideout,
officials in Helmand province said on Monday."

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack/at-
lea...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-afghanistan-attack/at-
least-35-people-at-wedding-party-killed-during-nearby-afghan-army-raid-
idUSKBN1W80MI)

This stuff just goes on...and on...and on...

But, compare it with the death tolls from school shootings in the United
States within the last 20 years:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_th...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States_by_death_toll)

Consider that our foreign policy can have the effect on others that school
shooters have on our own children.

------
sudoaza
"War on Terror" is newspeak, it's well known that Iraq had nothing to do with
9-11 nor had they WMD as claimed to invade them.

~~~
thrwway34
You conveniently forgot about 5000 chemical warheads, shells or aviation bombs
that US troops found in Iraq.

~~~
manicdee
Oh you mean the caches of weapons sold to Iraq by the US that had been buried
for decades?

As opposed to the rationale for the invasion which was Iraq building
stockpiles of WMD from their own factories?

Or are you talking about a different cache of chemical weapons?

------
onepointsixC
This seems to imply unfounded causality placing the blame at the feet of
America. If ISIS wasn't fought then there would have been millions of people
displaced all the same. There has been a decades long ongoing civil war in
Somalia. There's nothing which suggests that things would be peaches and roses
in Somalia if only the US hadn't been fighting Al-Shabaab and Al-Qaeda there.
If anything there could have been greater displacement of people fleeing the
more successful and bolder Islamist forces.

~~~
sudosysgen
The creation of ISIS is a direct and predicted result of the catastrophic US
policy in the Middle East. The conditions for ISIS to exist were not there
before US involvement, and wouldn't have arisen. Al Qaeda themselves likely
wouldn't have been an issue if it was not for US meddling in the Middle East.

~~~
onepointsixC
That's just not true. It's precursor, Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, predates
the Iraq war. It is true that the downfall of Saddam gave them opportunity,
you can't definitively say similar opportunity wouldn't have come about in an
Arab spring uprising just as there was in Syria. Islamist and Jihadists groups
are all throughout the region and sub Saharan Africa. To claim that these are
just American reactionaries is a self centered western view.

~~~
sudosysgen
It's precursor would never have been able to pose any challenge to the Syrian
military if it wasn't for the weapons the US and it's allies pumped into them.

The Syrian Army would still have been able to destroy the Jihadists if it
wasn't for the US waging war against the Syrian Army, by the way of airstrikes
and missile strikes.

I can definitively say that Iraq would not have collapsed into a failed state
if Saddam had been deposed organically. Hell, if it wasn't for the occupation
of Iraq by the US up to and including this very day its possible the Iraqi
state would have been able to rebuild itself, one way or another.

That being said, a large amount of terrorist groups in the Middle East find
the roots even earlier, in the US support of jihadis against the Soviets.

And wouldn't you know it! The founder of Jama'at al-Tawhid wal-Jihad, was
financed and trained in order to go fight against the USSR in Afghanistan.
Financed by who exactly? By Bin Laden, of course. Which himself got his money
and material for who? Wouldn't you believe it, it's the old red white and blue
again.

~~~
onepointsixC
Your story is nonfactual. The first US airstrikes in Syria were in 2014[1],
the first US airstrikes against the Syria Government were in 2017[2]. Both
long after the Syrian Armed forces had lost control of the situation.

The mass defection of Syrian Army soldiers and officers to the Free Syrian
Army guaranteed that the conflict was going to a bloody mess with arms falling
into hands of all parties, long before the US started supplying arms. And no,
you can't for certain say that Iraq would have fared better, as Iran would
have fueled Shia sectarianism all the same in Iraq as it did post US invasion.
Iran in fact was Sadam's greatest concern before his WMD bluff backfired.

[1]: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-
led_intervention_in_t...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American-
led_intervention_in_the_Syrian_Civil_War) [2]
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_attacks_...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_attacks_on_Syria_during_the_Syrian_Civil_War)

~~~
sudosysgen
>Your story is nonfactual. The first US airstrikes in Syria were in 2014[1],
the first US airstrikes against the Syria Government were in 2017[2]. Both
long after the Syrian Armed forces had lost control of the situation.

Yes, and that has contributed to make the ISIS mess even worse. In that way
the US is responisble for that.

>The mass defection of Syrian Army soldiers and officers to the Free Syrian
Army guaranteed that the conflict was going to a bloody mess with arms falling
into hands of all parties, long before the US started supplying arms.

The Free Syrian Army, which was also incidentally funded and armed by the US.

>And no, you can't for certain say that Iraq would have fared better, as Iran
would have fueled Shia sectarianism all the same in Iraq as it did post US
invasion. Iran in fact was Sadam's greatest concern before his WMD bluff
backfired.

In which case either he would have been overthrown or the country would have
fragmented. In both cases, the state or states would have been able to crush
ISIS.

------
Proven
That's why a foreign policy should be non-interventionist (aka isolationist).
In this case Trump's America first or Ron Paul's call to end foreign wars
would have helped.

Is Trump the only president since the 90's who hasn't started new wars?

------
beervirus
> While the United States is not the sole cause for the migration from these
> countries, the authors say it has played either a dominant or contributing
> role in these conflicts.

This makes the scary-headline conclusion pretty worthless.

~~~
sudosysgen
It really isn't. US actions made it possible for the problem to become what it
is. If it wasn't for US involvement Iraq would have been a strong state and
would have destroyed any force like ISIS, Al Qaeda wouldn't be much more than
a reading group, Syria would be peaceful, Libya would still exist, and so on.
It can be true that you have had a strong contributing role and that it
wouldn't have happened if you weren't there - that's just how multicausal
events works.

~~~
beervirus
That's all awfully speculative, especially the part about Al Qaeda being just
a reading group.

~~~
sudosysgen
And yet, it turns out that every single major terrorist group has had the US
implicate in their origin and rise. Isn't it funny how that turns out?

~~~
beervirus
“Implicated” as in they hate the US and wouldn’t exist without us as their
enemy.

~~~
sudosysgen
No, as in were founded due to direct action and were allied with the interests
of the US.

