
The Nano Membrane Toilet - ph0rque
http://www.cranfield.ac.uk/research/research-activity/current-projects/research-projects/nanomembrane-toilet.html
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matt_wulfeck
Is residential water usage really a large problem? I assume that
municipalities have a decent ability to reclaim and reuse much of the water
flushed down the drain and toilet.

I know at least for California residential water use makes up just 15%[0]. I
know every little bit helps, but a toilet is an incredibly simple invention
and it would be a shame to replace it with something so much more complicated.

[0] [http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media/images/water-
fig1-lrg....](http://www.environment.ucla.edu/media/images/water-fig1-lrg.jpg)

~~~
glibgil
I wish you would read the article and watch the video. The target market and
business model is well explained. Can you imagine a region in the world that
does not have running water and sewers and may actually enter in the "first
world" before those services do? Well then, that's what this toilet is for.

~~~
roywiggins
Composting toilets don't need water either.

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Composting_toilet)

Alternatively, just try to divert urine so it never mixes in the first place:

[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine-
diverting_dry_toilets](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urine-
diverting_dry_toilets)

Both of these seem on first glance to be easier to maintain.

~~~
glibgil
Yeah, this toilet isn't for rural use. It is for places that should have
sewers but don't and that probably never will get sewers. It is for dirty
cities in the third world.

~~~
brianwawok
Will the cost of these toilets ever make sense for that?

When I see things like "Turn a 2L bottle into a light" for a really poor area
- I think awesome, something they already have laying around can make their
lives way better.

When I see things like "Nano-polmer super toilet for those without running
water" I just kind of shrug. Seems to cost more than adding running water,
while still not providing a clean place to drink.

What am I missing?

~~~
cpayne
(I think!!!) it is a problem of scale.

In 3rd world locations, you can be walking 3km every 2nd day to fill a
jerrycan of water.

If that's the case then you aren't going to use that to flush.

And even if you do (using grey water after cleaning etc.), then you won't have
the toilet inside the house.

~~~
brianwawok
So how much does installing this super toilet cost, best case?

How much to run a line of fresh water to the house?

If <cost of toilet> is not less than <cost of fresh water line / 10>, it seems
like not a win - as fresh water can solve both drinking and help with
sanitation (though not get you all the way there).

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jasonpeacock
And yet this problem has already been solved with composting toilets for many
years.

Why do we need to build such a fancy and complicated device when all you need
is to pee in a separate bucket from your poo, and let the poo aerate/dry
naturally? Mix in some dry mulch and you're done!

Urine itself is sterile and can be easily treated/recycled.

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serf
>Urine itself is sterile

This is a misconception that particularly annoys me, probably because it was
the (incorrect) excuse a nurse once gave me when he accidentally spilled a
urinal filled with liquid all over me while I was bed-ridden in an ICU. [0]
[1]

[0]: [http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/turns-out-urine-
isn...](http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/turns-out-urine-isnt-
actually-sterile-180954809/?no-ist)

[1]: [http://www.stritch.luc.edu/newswire/news/study-debunks-
commo...](http://www.stritch.luc.edu/newswire/news/study-debunks-common-
misconception-urine-sterile-0)

~~~
tomcam

        he accidentally spilled a urinal filled with liquid all over me while I was bed-ridden in an ICU. [0] [1]
    

Well that's a horrible experience. I too am quite surprised the sterile urine
legend lives on.

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evanlivingston
So,

My late father recently developed a waterless toilet which is significantly
simpler and likely cheaper than this one.

[http://www.dry-flush.com/videos/](http://www.dry-flush.com/videos/)

~~~
hmottestad
Neat. Reminds me of the nappy bins.

However, the one in the video seems more geared at sustainability and reuse.
They filter the water out of the pee. Dry out the poo for fertilisation.

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joezydeco
That schematic view of human feces is....let's just say it's incredibly
optimistic.

~~~
ph0rque
Agreed. The whole concept is too complicated for the real world, in my
opinion. But, if the team is willing to iterate based on feedback, and
incorporate some of the advances of other composting and incinerating toilets,
the end product might work really well.

~~~
codingdave
That is exactly what i was thinking - making this produce compost instead of
waste intended for a collection facility would be not only more useful in
developing areas, but could even improve the urban gardening/homesteading
movement. and lets face it - in developed nations, it is us crazy hippie folk
who would buy this anyway.

~~~
erroneousfunk
In developing areas, people grow food as close to their drinking water as
possible to make watering and/or irrigation easy. I don't know if anyone wants
to recommend that they start adding human waste to the mix.

~~~
codingdave
I'd love to know where you are talking about, because everyone I talk to does
exactly the opposite. We know we are going to use animal waste, and other
compost, to fertilize our garden beds. So we pull our drinking water from
upstream of any food production. my family does not use humanure in our
systems, but it certainly is done by other people and in other areas.

If there really are developing areas who fail in this design principle, they
need education on how to design their food production. Holding back a useful
tool just because some people might use it incorrectly doesn't make sense. But
most people who are even somewhat self-sufficient know that the flow of water
is a crucial design point.

If not composted and used productively, then human waste is just a pollutant.
But if you can increase food production and have a productive recycling of
materials at the same time, you are killing two birds with one stone.

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Xeoncross
The problem is that the toilet's estimated cost is $0.05 per user. So for a 4
person family potentially living on only a couple dollars per day this would
make up 10-20% of their living expenses. This isn't like our budgets where we
can afford 10-20% because we are WAY past trying to eat and live. This is
10-20% of all the money you have for food, clothing, and medicine.

Also, I'm assuming the toilet will go up in price as more people try to make
more off the system.

All that said, I welcome the Nano Membrane toilet to the much needed market.
I'm all for composting toilet technology as our current system of simply
creating raw sewage then trying to treat it with massive amounts of chemicals
(which are very bad for the environment) isn't sustainable.

1) Natureshead, 2) Airhead, and 3) Separett toilet

These three all much better suited to low cost, rural uses. For more hi-tech
versions we have Sun-Mar. However, all these still cost at least $1,000 USD.

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ghshephard
For "low cost, rural use" \- nothing beats a hole in the ground. :-)

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david-given
Digging a safe latrine pit is more complex than you might think!

[http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/hygiene/emergenci...](http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/hygiene/emergencies/fs3_4.pdf)

Plus they have a limited lifetime; they fill up, and you need to dig a new
one.

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fab13n
It would also make sense in developed countries: shitting in water makes it
much more complicated to treat afterwards, and greatly increases the
ecological footprint of that processing. Moreover, it makes failures to
properly treat much more dangerous (human feces are where you most easily find
pathogens specialised in human invasion, besides human cadavers).

Feces compost just fine in a dry environment, if you mix it with enough carbon
(dried plants or sawdust). No treatment, except letting it decompose over a
couple of years, and very little smell if the nitrate/carbon/humidity balance
is respected.

Of course, water companies wouldn't be thrilled by such a simplification, and
people like the illusion that their poo-poo just magically disappears when
they press a button.

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nikolay
Even simpler mechanisms clog and I don't think this scraper can do such a good
job, but this still could be better than a septic tank or others alternatives.

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ww520
This device has quite a bit of moving parts, needs periodic part replacement,
and requires electricity to operate.

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rayiner
What does it do with the toilet paper...

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fab13n
that's just more fiber. Besides, in many of the countries targeted by this,
people wash with water, rather than sweeping with paper.

~~~
brianwawok
It is designed for no running water, so I would assume no bidet water also.
Could go for the shared sponge ala Rome (was that really healthy?)

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noobie
Can someone create a social enterprise that uses this idea to generate profit
and make a wider impact?

~~~
glibgil
yes

