
Ask HN: 55 years old and no experience, am I too old to get a job? - fiftyfivenoexp
 I can program in many languages (ruby, python, lisp, clojure, java (no expert), scala,R, javascript ES6, Haskell (level as in rwh, lysh, I must be the yegge exception),  prolog, erlang (no expert in otp), elixir (don&#x27;t know phoenix), mysql (basic sql queries,normalizacion),ruby sinatra (not rails), and a little django. Linux: (bash programming &gt;&gt; tee grep awk). I have a degree and a PhD in math, also a CS degree (90s, 3 year time,from a European University, my final work was about matroids, Edmond&#x27;s algorithm for the intersection of matroids  implemented in prolog,  applications to graph theory,  NP-complete problems, and heuristics like in Papadimitriu). I have published some  papers in complexity theory, physics and abstract math. I have a good grasp of theoretical and applied statistics. I have some knowledge of  machine learning (in decreasing order: books like esl; R, ipython and sklean. Some AI knowledge (like in norvig Modern IA). My hackerrank profile is not bad (solving problem there mostly in Lisp).<p>But I have no experience working with a team, and is very likely I won&#x27;t be able to cope with frequents tight deadlines.    English is my second language. I  enjoy programming and learning new skill by myself and I&#x27;m able to learn quickly.<p>I wonder if, at my age, I will be able to get a job as a  programmer or data scientists. Any tips?
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dahdum
You certainly have the academic background and skill to work, but may I ask
what you've been doing for the past 20 years?

If you've been working in any type of technical or academic role you'll still
be a good candidate. If you haven't worked it will be difficult to land the
first one, and I think becoming an expert with common web platforms such as
React will help the most. Plenty of small companies are looking for people on
contract, and you'll build recent work experience.

~~~
degenerate
Don't ignore this question OP. Every single employer is going to wonder
exactly the same thing. What _have_ you been doing for 20 years, exactly?

If you've been tilling the rice fields in bangladesh and becoming one with
nature to start your own religion, own it! You have to be forward with that
information otherwise employers will get cold feet.

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currymj
I think your academic career counts as experience.

I would think your best bet is data science/machine learning. If you have read
and mostly understood ESL i’d think you’re basically qualified. Play around
with Tensorflow/PyTorch and modern neural networks so you can say you know
about deep learning.

Knowledge of “classical” statistics is a competitive advantage.

Perhaps frame yourself as a consultant or contractor, if you find you face age
discrimination. The advantage of having an older person with experience and
wisdom might be more apparent, vs competing for entry level jobs.

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SQL2219
The following ideas are my opinions, based upon my own experiences. I don't
have any data to back this up.

I wouldn't apply to immature companies (startups and similar), as I think they
are going to be the most prejudiced. I think the opportunities for you will
exist in healthcare, banking, govt. or utilities that need skills like yours.
I feel there are lots of good paying jobs in these types of companies that
would be more open hiring an older worker.

I see you have R and Python along with some SQL, perhaps this along with your
PhD in math could be leveraged into a data science job, or jr position in data
science.

Take a look at kaggle.com, perhaps you can do something there to get your foot
in the door.

~~~
fiftyfivenoexp
Thanks, I will try to learn more about feature engineering. Long ago I read
Machine Learning for Hackers, and followed one of the author blogs about the
julia language.

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vfulco2
I am only a few years younger than you, American, and run a professional
services company (resumes/linkedin profiles/interview coaching, academic work)
in Shanghai after 24 years on/off Wall Street. Look up my email and shoot me
your resume. I will give it a thorough review for glaring issues. Please give
me a week as my client schedule is full. Free for you (fiftyfivenoexp)
although I typically charge for the service. You can look me up on LinkedIn
for background.

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exegete
A lot of STEM PhD's are transitioning into data science in industry. It seems
you have a lot of CS background as well, so "data engineer" might also be a
role you should look into.

Also, you say you have no experience working with a team. So no
collaborations? No co-authors (surely you must have some students working for
you)? I see from another comment that you had to go through the tenure
process. I'm sure you had some deadlines to meet there and some important
requirements to meet.

As far as tips, I have found this article helpful:
[https://blog.insightdatascience.com/preparing-for-the-
transi...](https://blog.insightdatascience.com/preparing-for-the-transition-
to-data-science-e9194c90b42c?gi=40f8586a4ff0)

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anoncoward111
I'd say you are infinitely more qualified than me. Network hard, in person,
apply to a lot of places.

I'd actually be curious to hear if you succeed because if you don't, then I'm
certain is horribly wrong and biased with current hiring practices

~~~
fiftyfivenoexp
Thanks for the tips. Anyway, I think that if all that is needed is to learn
the latest web framework and measure code by lines of code/hour that knowledge
is of little use. Now going to gym, just to stay in good shape. I see you are
brave by your name.

~~~
soneca
Don't learn the latest web framework, you should leverage your current
knowledge. Web development is not a good choice for you.

And I say this without the implicit prejudice I noticed in your comment, as
I'm a web developer myself, I had to learn _" the latest web framework"_ to
get a job, and I like it.

Also, I never heard about such a thing as measuding lines of code per hour

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Learn2win
I am in a similar situation and i am happy about it. I don't belong to anyone;
that means i can work for anyone. This gives the flexibility to get involved
in projects I am truly passionate about. There are things maturity does
better; one of the those is the ability to think logically, clearly and
abstractly. Based on your skills, you would be under selling yourself as a
programmer because you have more than just programming skills. What you have
are problem solving skills. If I were you, I would look for consultant &
advisor jobs. I know a couple a companies that look for people with your set
of skills, shoot me an email if you're interested.

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DoreenMichele
I'm not a programmer, but I got my first full time job at age 41. I was a
homemaker for 2 decades before that. I put education and volunteer experience
on my resume.

My recollection is that the book _What color is your parachute?_ has some good
tips for getting your first job and points out that everyone has a "first job"
at some point.

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cimmanom
With an academic background in math, there’s probably demand for your
background in certain BigCos — Google; finance; anywhere investing heavily in
developing new machine learning techniques. A (non-spammy) recruiter may also
be able to help you find the companies that are looking for your expertise.

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bytematic
Jesus I wish I could absorb your knowledge, reading that paragraph gives me
anxiety. It would be so stupid and against everything I could understand of
rational decision making if you couldn't get hired.

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modells
It depends. I had a sysadmin consulting co. in high school that serviced
nuclear, mech and thermo engineering companies. ML/AI, scientific and other
specialized software eng are rarely picky in anything but pedigree and
experience. For general-purpose coding, I wouldn’t bother unless you’re
hackathon-insanely productive... also such jobs are more standardized and
therefore more readily outsourced.

Haskell (biceps emojis here)

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abc_lisper
Yeah, you can, if you can avoid startups and cool dudes. Im pretty sure you if
you are proficient enough, you can get a job in Enterprise/IT.

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sammy_cool
Did you try already? Not sure what your CV looks like but the way you list
your experience is a bit concerning. That's quite a lot of stuff. And you say
you don't have much to show for it. Most people are going to assume you're
mediocre or even a beginner in all of these. Say less and people will assume
more competence.

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slipwalker
i would build a profile on some(many) freelancing site(s), and take a couple
programming gigs to build up a portfolio on Linkedin. From there, apply to as
many jobs as you seem fit while polishing your soft skills ( deadlines and
teams are a harsh reality ).

~~~
fiftyfivenoexp
Thanks, I don't have a portfolio. I think is time to create one.

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DEADBEEFC0FFEE
Pretty sure if you can do statistics you can get work. I would stop referring
to yourself as No Experience, it's not true. If you're successful in academia,
you probaly have lots of experience.

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runjake
A related Ask HN thread from last week that may help shed some light:

[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17624888](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=17624888)

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Jugurtha
If you're in Algiers, Algeria, can you get in touch? We'll work something up.

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slow_donkey
Willing to relocate? Friends company should be hiring. Pm me hn@raindeer.io

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ghostbust555
If you want to start small and take on a website or mobile app look at gigster

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lifeencoder
Don't Forget: Age is just a number!

~~~
fiftyfivenoexp
But unfortunatly is a bounded number. Going to see Mission Impossible: Ghost
Protocol with my sons just to get some tips about how to overcome
difficulties. Thanks all for the positive feedback. I tried to upvote
everyone, but can't do it because I replied and hn rules. Thanks folks.

~~~
Latteland
Lots of good comments. It sounds like you have lots of programming breadth,
the question is how much depth you have, can you be a regular programmer or
are you a special area of knowledge type programmer. You don't sound like a UI
programmer necessarily from that skillset.

1\. Data science is often deeper stats knowledge, less programming (ie can
sketch something up together using python and libraries, then a programmer can
take over to make it production). But you have to understand stats and ideas.
I'd expect you to do this or pick it up. Most CS people aren't very deep in
stats, so you can do better than them in that area.

2\. Regular programming jobs - I think this would be a bit harder to start in.
Companies will not know how to evaluate all that various different experience.
So you'll have to find something that matches up with a companies needs. a.
Maybe some scientific or statistical scientific programming, other than data
science? b. Maybe you can find some open source project to contribute to to
show you capabilities.

You could take a very short term gig to build up your resume and confidence of
what programming is like today.

Interviews - interviews at many companies are unfortunately more about passing
a potentially tricky design problem. Try to do one or two problems every day
or two at one of the "leet" code type sites. When I interviewed recently at
several big-software-cos I was surprised to get multiple leet code problems -
and I'm a software engineer with 20 years experience, working on
infrastructure.

You should search for data science interview questions to get ready for that.
There's huge demand for different kinds of software expertise, but you will
have to work and network to get through until you can talk to engineers and
interview.

I could boil all this down to:

1\. data science looks very promising for you 2\. look on linked-in for
companies hiring 3\. search for data science interview questions on the web
4\. interview and get that job!

~~~
User23
> Maybe you can find some open source project to contribute to to show you
> capabilities.

I came here to say this. It's a big deal. It proves that you can write quality
code and work with a team. It's also trendy, which doesn't hurt.

~~~
damm
> I came here to say this. It's a big deal. It proves that you can write
> quality code and work with a team. It's also trendy, which doesn't hurt.

Absolutely. If were a model with a portfolio with no pictures in it; you won't
get hired.

So it has to be full; of valid content you can share. People want to see it.

Otherwise you won't be taken as seriously

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noncomformist43
In my 40s, I just started working my first real job as a data scientist. I'm a
polymath but I've lived most of my life as an entrepreneur and party boy. I've
helped out at other people's startups before but usually got bored fast and
quit. This time feels like it's going to be different. The work is interesting
and I feel a genuine sense of purpose. I guess it was finally time to grow up.

