

So You Want to Buy: Startup Office Snacks - dmor
http://refer.ly/so_you_want_to_buy__startup_office_snacks/c/984171a826c511e2a4ec22000a1d0d51
I am using Referly (my YC startup) test this idea, but hopefully it will help some of you as well.  One my most frustrating yet fun statup jobs has been trying to order food for everyone (this becomes quite challenging as a company gets to be 40 or 50 people).  I tried to compile office snack ideas into a single shopping list along with commentary and advice.  Is this useful?  How could we make it better?
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mindslight
Ah, so straight-up referral spam becomes acceptable when done by somebody who
should know better? Cool!

Next up: Top 5 sites for buying V1agra and C1a1is for ma5sive gr0wth hack1ng
at l0w 1ow pr1ces.

~~~
dmor
This is really interesting to me, because it _could_ be helpful and useful (I
mean, I just bought $900 worth of stuff for my startup so it's not just a
random collection of crap) but it comes of as spam. Can you help me understand
what it is that sets off the "spam bit"?

Also, what does "should know better" mean? If I wrote this as a blog post on
Svbtle and it was a story with a bunch of referral links instead would it be
different? Is the credibility of it damaged by the fact I could make money if
you buy the things I suggested? Or something else...

And lastly, is this unique to the HN community and its acceptable methods of
communication, or a broader turnoff you would notice even if you hadn't found
this link here?

~~~
mindslight
So is this the part where you engage with criticism, as the worst that will
happen is fanning the flames of controversy which just drives more attention?
But I'm not saying that your comment isn't in earnest either - you're wishing
to figure out how to categorically make spam look like not spam, as your
startup is based on making it easy for people to spam their friends and
associates, and so is highly vulnerable to the social repercussions of bad
first impressions.

A simple and easy first step to making your site seem less spammy would be to
register a whole bunch of different domains composed of relevant keywords.
These can be used to mitigate being banned from link aggregator sites and to
delay users noticing the pattern. Markov chain generated text surrounding the
links would do wonders on the less savvy users, too. I'm sure there are plenty
more of such tips if you hang out in the right forums.

What you fail to realize is that credibility has been destroyed by each and
every detail of the situation. The earnest blog that has the occasional spammy
referral post can be mostly forgiven (although the users that upvote it
shouldn't be), as it's clear that the writer has a life purpose besides
referral links. I see no such redeeming qualities here.

"Should know better" refers to the fact that you present yourself as part of
the tech community, while simultaneously disrespecting the general consensus
on spam. Although maybe it's just that the shark that was jumped has died of
old age.

Oh, I just remembered it's Sunday - I've got to go do a bit of sanitation
hacking.

~~~
dmor
Yes, creating lot's of domains is precisely what other affiliates do and what
I have been trying to avoid - it feels very dishonest to me. I am extremely
aware of how this looks, how affiliates are viewed, and how credibility is
destroyed at every step. That's why it is so fascinating to me and why I'm
trying to understand if there is a problem to solve for affiliates.

There is also a good chance that this is just not the right kind of content
for this community.

How would you feel if Referly much more clearly said "hey, if you decide to
buy through my links that is totally up to you - but if you do I am going to
earn 6-8% commission. This doesn't change the price of your products, but I
hope it will serve as a nice tip to me for organizing all this info in one
place for you. If not, no worries"

~~~
mindslight
I just don't see the angle. A respected blog posting affiliate links is about
my limit of 'earnestly recommending products and happen to be making
commission'. Referly seems primed to create low-authority (quality is
irrelevant) lists which are then posted to various community sites, much like
you have just done.

You _might_ be able to save some credibility by also including non-affiliate
links so users are given an easy-to-act-on choice, but I cringe for even
possibly helping.

~~~
dmor
Don't worry, you won't burn in the pit of spam hell... we don't want to be a
spam site. The sad thing is that my credibility is poorly reflected in this
Referly post, but if you were to read it in the context of
distributionhacks.com, daniellemorrill.com or the Twilio company blog it would
have a totally different meaning. And that is the secret we have uncovered I
think... the results of my experiment will be forthcoming

This is also why Klout is such a bunch of crap.

~~~
mindslight
FWIW, my original comment was written in the context of what I've seen of
distributionhacks (which I am not interested in, to put it mildly). I don't
know if that changes your data point or what. I don't really think you've
uncovered a secret - perceived motives matter _a lot_ (for example how your
account has remained unhellbanned, whereas as a 1-week old 'affiliateseo7132'
would have been gone quite quickly). I actually didn't doubt that you
sincerely compiled a list of recommended snacks, but the context of 'how can
we put stuff in people's faces and cause them be interested' coupled with
affiliate links for junk food puts you in spamming territory no matter how
much meta thinking or startupspeak you have going on (these things just make
for the ridiculousness of it). Though I'm sure the strength of various
audiences' mental immune systems will vary considerably.

------
mvkel
I've made a similar list directly on Amazon. It's awesome, as I can just click
"re-order" when we're running low for the items I don't have a subscription
to.

What sucks is Amazon carries nothing but garbage food (like the items you
listed); no healthy snacks that don't make a keyboard greasy, or orange.

What I've consistently bought: peanut butter crackers, trail mix snacks,
water.

I wish Amazon carried more _naturally_ sugar-free snack food!

~~~
dmor
I agree, I was really struggling to find healthy stuff on their (at least the
almonds and beef jerky are a bit better but still, not by much). I have been
considering setting up subscription, but not sure how long stuff is going to
last. What do you subscribe to?

~~~
mvkel
Strictly non-perishables that we can never have too much of. In short, trail
mix and water :)

There aren't many subscription options on Amazon, either.

Something that will mature over the next few years, I'm sure.

~~~
jmharvey
I've found that having plenty of fruit on hand is key to being able to work
long startup days without feeling like crap at the end of the week.

Non-perishables are somewhat overrated: most food will be eaten (especially
once you know what people like and what they don't like), and having a few
dollars' worth of fruit go bad each week is a tiny amount of your food budget.

~~~
mvkel
Yeah, we get fruit and other perishables, of course. I was just describing the
items I can (and do) order off Amazon.

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rdl
I'm puzzled why people buy popcorn in bags (with nasty fake butter, etc. --
there's actually a disease, Popcorn Workers Lung
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronchiolitis_obliterans>).

You can just use regular paper bags, put some popcorn in, and pop it. It works
fine. There isn't a microwave susceptor or anything like that in the bag.
(some tv dinners actually do include materials designed to heat up from
microwaves to directly cook the food, particularly foods with low water
content which would otherwise not get cooked well in the microwave.)

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incomethax
Maybe it's just a result of us being in the Midwest, but most of the snacks
displayed here aren't all that cheap to me. I can get things cheaper if I go
to Woodman's (local grocery store) or Costco.

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dgabriel
In the Boston area, Boston Organics will deliver a tasty assortment of organic
fruits weekly. We get this at my office, and it goes fast.
<http://www.bostonorganics.com/>

I'm sure there are equivalents in other cities.

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greattypo
Would love to see a healthy version next.. :)

Also anyone who buys Diet Coke on Amazon is crazy.

~~~
dmor
I will work on the healthy version, but have found it is surprisingly hard to
come up with at a reasonable price, it has always been a challenge in
companies I've worked at. I usually buy Diet Coke at Costco, where do you get
yours?

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kdeer1
Gross, this list is a 1-way ticket to the Cancer Ward!

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rdl
Also, Jack Link's brand beef jerky is disgusting. Really. almost any of the
commercial stuff is disgusting.

If you don't make your own, my favorite is <http://www.bigjohnsbeefjerky.com/>

It's actually made from tolerably good meat, not overly processed, and is cut
into nice thin slices which are easy to eat.

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natasham25
The food on there is pretty disgusting. Not sure why startup culture goes
together with junk food. It's like buying poison for your team.

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kdeer1
i don't have a problem with the referral links, but all this so - called food
is the worst stuff for your health. If you want to poison your employees then
go ahead feed this to them. You should learn a little bit about living
healthy.

