
How one SV engineer benefitted from the tacit acceptance of entrenched sexism - gregleffler
https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/how-one-silicon-valley-engineer-benefitted-from-tacit-faye-keegan
======
a_puppy
I agree Haseeb's comment was sexist, and I'm glad that Keegan called him out
on it.

But I think the punishment she's asking for is too strong. She seems to be
implying that he shouldn't be allowed to have a successful career after making
that comment, which I think is a massively disproportionate punishment.

Also, this isn't "tacit acceptance of entrenched sexism". There was nothing
"tacit" about her calling him out, and her response and Ruggeri's response
were not "acceptance". In fact, if every sexist comment got called out like
this, people would stop making sexist comments. The problem is when people
make sexist comments and don't get called out on it, or when the incident is
brought to higher authorities and the authorities defend the sexist comments--
neither of which happened in this case.

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PaulHoule
Also it is not so clear that this person is really a winner in the long term.

My experience is that if you negotiate for a high salary, unless you really
perform like a super-superstar, you will be the last to get a raise and the
first to go if anything goes wrong.

------
andrewl
I'd only heard the name App Academy before this article. I did a bit of
reading on it. It's an intensive twelve-week program, and it looks like
applicants have to pass heavy screening for aptitude. I can well believe that
properly screened and highly-motivated people can learn a huge amount in
twelve weeks. And Qureshi seems highly intelligent. He's described in the
Business Insider article as a former professional poker player with an English
degree. His blog says he was a millionaire poker player by the age of 19. So
I'm guessing he's pretty powerful analytically.

But still. If a company is putting a _quarter of a million dollars_ on the
table, I would think they'd be able to find somebody as smart as Qureshi who
also had a computer science or computer engineering or mathematics background
and _years_ of coding experience.

I don't work in the tech world this article is describing, so I don't know.
But it seems odd to me.

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11thEarlOfMar
If you're looking for a job in any field, and any type of _ism_ is a concern
for you, you have three options:

1\. Ignore the _ism_ and be yourself.

2\. Call out bad behavior and campaign against the _ism_.

3\. Adopt the behaviors of the _ism_ and try to minimize the differences.

Individual personalities and circumstances likely dictate which of these you
choose, but everyone who is subjected to an _ism_ and looks for work chooses,
and none of those options are the better choice for everyone.

If you are in a hiring role, keep in mind that you put your company's
reputation at risk and can invite legal action if you judge candidates by any
measure associated with _isms_. Be thoughtful and prudent out there.

~~~
fullshark
you forgot

4\. Whine about it in a blogpost to try to create an internet outrage army

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xiphias
I think Haseeb wants to offer genuine help to women. If this woman doesn't
want to take the advice, it's OK. Just ignore it. But please don't write a
blog post about how he communicates instead of what's important: the message.
For Engineers communication style was always secondary, and although it's
getting more important, it should be staying secondary to the content and the
real meaning behind the message.

------
YeGoblynQueenne
>> “Shake hands like a man, especially if you’re a woman.”

Er, that's a load of bollocks.

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skmurphy
[Haseeb left a long comment (sorry it does not seem to be possible to link
directly to it) Here is an edited version (I have removed sentences but
believe I have preserved some key points) To be clear I don't know Haseeb and
have never met him, but I thought his comments helped to put aspects of the
original post in context. I don't know that they are true but they are posted
under his LinkedIn ID.]

Hey Faye, Someone linked me to your article that you posted on LinkedIn Pulse
about me. First off, your article is completely fair. Though this took place
about 6 months ago, it's something that weighed heavily on me when it
happened. I never reached out to you to discuss it personally, though I don't
think that was my fault. Let me explain.

[...]

That presentation was the first time that I realized I'd said something
flagrantly sexist. I'd written the slides about 30 minutes before the
presentation and never read them aloud to anyone. I immediately felt ashamed
when I read them aloud, because I knew it was a sexist line that I should've
immediately deleted and re-written. So when you pointed out that it was
sexist, I hoped that the best way I could concede the point would be to
acknowledge you were correct and fix it in front of everyone. After the
presentation, I was pretty ashamed. I wasn't really sure what to do about it,
because I thought two things: one, I made a point to fix the presentation, so
was that enough? Should I have done something else? Second, should I apologize
to you personally? But would that be weird? You weren't the only woman in the
crowd; should I go apologize to every woman? Would that be even weirder? I
wasn't sure what to do, so I decided I'd wait for lecture feedback.

[...]

When Ned took me aside a few days later and told me about receiving an
anonymous e-mail about it, it made me feel even worse. He didn't tell me which
female student it was, but his conversation had confirmed both that someone
was strongly affected by this incident, and that I hadn't done enough to
address it. Ned did not tell me who you were. I told Ned to let whoever had
sent that message know that I'd be happy to apologize to them personally if
that was something they'd be open to. I also would've hoped to ask what I
could do best to address it to the rest of the class. I never heard back. So
the personalized apology you said never came, was because Ned rightly did not
reveal who you were unless you wanted to communicate with me directly. Though
I didn't hear anything more about it, that incident affected me very strongly,
and made me much more vigilant to be thoughtful about my language and what
biases I bring to my teaching at App Academy. I decided that if I were ever to
make a mistake like that again, the best thing to do would be to call it out
and openly address it as a mistake after the lecture, and apologize explicitly
to the students.

[...]

There's a lot in your post I don't agree with (no surprise there). I also
don't think Ned was in the wrong in any way here, and I think it's unfair for
you to paint him as having been complicit in anything untoward. But mostly I
want to say, I'm sorry. I'm sorry both that this happened and made you feel
unwelcome at App Academy, and also that I wasn't able to make it right after
it did. Sincerely, Haseeb

------
JoeAltmaier
tl;dr: too-blunt reality check offends some

~~~
sp332
Trying to make your interviewer believe you are like them is fine. Accepting
that most interviewers are men, as immutable fact, is not. Telling women they
need to be less womanly to get a job is not.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Even if it works? I mean sure, in a perfect world. But the advice was to job-
seekers in the current world. Thus, 'reality check'.

We can spell out the right and wrong way things should be run all day long.
Not useful unless you're in a position to change them. For the rest of us,
good advice is to adapt.

~~~
sp332
Well I also left out the most obvious thing, which is describing a confident
handshake as "shaking hands like a man." That really is blatantly sexist.

~~~
JoeAltmaier
Did you understand what was meant? Then the phrase was effective. Are there
statistical correlations between handshakes and gender? Blunt reality check
again.

~~~
sp332
What it means is that women should be encouraged to give confident handshakes,
not that women should renounce their femininity and try to be more manly.

