
The Day I Drove for Amazon Flex - clebio
https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2018/06/amazon-flex-workers/563444/?single_page=true
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spyckie2
The 'gig' economy reminds me very much of the state of factory workers in the
early 1900s. For businesses, it was very clear that forcing workers to work in
a very unfriendly way (doing a repetitive task as part of an assembly line)
was a multiplier for scale and productivity. However, associated with that was
the "price" unfair wages, long hours, stress, strain, and injury.

It took 30-60 years of unions and labor rights before the problem was 'solved'
\- the non-monetary economics of that kind of production sucked (worker's comp
+ regulations for human rights) and those factories shipped overseas to where
those things didn't exist.

The modern gig economy is really just scaling up distribution instead of mass
production. On paper, it is cheap and scalable. But add in all the socio-
economic components and you'll realize that it's not really that cheap, and
not an economic engine that can survive long term past the initial stages,
reason being that demand exists only because the price is subsidized.

Currently, shipping is extremely cheap, subsidized by Amazon, the government,
and more recently, the individuals who due to lack of opportunities live with
subsistence wages. If shipping was actual market price (where gig workers
earned a fair wage), the cost would be much higher, which would shrink demand.
(shipping was available as a function since forever, and wasn't ever a popular
shopping option until today).

If we wanted free shipping as a standard of living, we would need to subsidize
shipping on a governmental level, similar to how we subsidize food (especially
meat). Americans don't realize it but meat is cheap in the US, much cheaper
than the rest of the world. This is purely because of subsidies, which is a
perk to allow the american standard of living: [https://www.quora.com/Why-are-
meat-and-animal-by-products-so...](https://www.quora.com/Why-are-meat-and-
animal-by-products-so-cheap-in-the-U-S-despite-of-the-fact-that-it-takes-a-
lot-of-natural-resources-to-produce-them).

If you want to make the american standard of living free package delivery,
subsidize the wages from the US government, and force the tech companies to
pay real corporate tax.

~~~
amelius
Isn't subsidized pricing illegal?

See:
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Predatory_pricing)

> Predatory pricing , also known as undercutting, is a pricing strategy in
> which a product or service is set at a very low price with the intention to
> drive competitors out of the market or to create barriers to entry for
> potential new competitors. Theoretically, if competitors or potential
> competitors cannot sustain equal or lower prices without losing money, they
> go out of business or choose not to enter the business. The so-called
> predatory merchant then theoretically has fewer competitors or even is a de
> facto monopoly.

> Predatory pricing is considered anti-competitive in many jurisdictions and
> is illegal under competition laws.

~~~
shanghaiaway
Is Uber illegal?

~~~
rainbowmverse
Courts exist to answer this question.

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sulam
It's not so great on the other end, either. My house has a gate to get to the
front door. The gate is very easy to operate and never locked. A driver (I
have to assume Flex) instead _threw_ a 20lb box with an ice maker in it over
the fence and into a rose bush that was clearly visible (the fence is just
wrought iron). It crushed a lot of roses and thankfully didn't damage the ice
maker. My wife was literally 20' away in her office when it happened and says
the driver simply drove up, threw it over, and drove away.

~~~
fapjacks
I know a person that uses a paintball gun to keep people out of his apartment
building's dumpster (identity theft from documents stolen out of trash is a
_huge_ problem where he lives) and also to tag delivery trucks and (yikes)
delivery drivers that do this kind of hit-and-run delivery. He'd had enough of
things being broken in this way.

~~~
lostctown
That seems a little excessive? I hope he sees judicial consequences for his
behavior.

~~~
dsfyu404ed
I'm not defending the GP's acquaintance but getting hit by a paintball is
lower than the typical risks you accept when you dig around in a dumpster.
Generally speaking dumpster diving isn't trespassing unless it's behind a gate
or something. It really depends on the dumpster in question.

If it's a good construction or scrap metal dumpster with a lot of nice
material in it then defending it with a paintball gun is very much a dick move
though.

I don't see why he's getting down-voted. He just said he knew a guy who did a
thing. He didn't even imply whether he approved of it or not.

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extralego
_> Because of the way Flex works, drivers rarely know when blocks of time will
become available, and don’t know when they’ll be working or how much they’ll
be making on any given day.”_

 _> ”Kelly Cheeseman, an Amazon spokeswoman, told me that Flex is a great
opportunity for people to be their own boss and set their own schedule.”_

~~~
Tsiklon
The Doublethink is real here isn't it?

I note a similar thing here in the UK - most of the folks working 'gig
economy' or more accurately 'single person zero guaranteed hour contractor'
jobs are doing this stuff full time and are pushed hard to make a workable
living out of it.

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duxup
The Kobayashi Maru delivery situations where there are few parking options or
the customer simply isn't there seem terribly unfair.

~~~
tanagra
I’ve never before seen the term kobayashi maru used in the wild. Now that I
have, I think, it should be more widely used.

~~~
duxup
It feels like a very literary type term... I get my monocle out each time i
use it.... and my Star Trek badge.

------
moltar
Why there were never these articles for pizza drivers and other deliveries
before?

~~~
plankers
Because the companies they worked for didn't threaten to upend the retail
market of an entire nation, I'm guessing.

~~~
extralego
That makes sense in some clearcut ways and a lot of generally concerning ways.
I wonder if the sentiment from how it affects peoples’ lives is at play or if
it’s just Amazon being so big. It seems similar to Wal-Mart rage, which was
mostly the former.

------
ars
Sounds like non-drivable, only walkable, cities are a real problem for
deliveries.

~~~
Djvacto
I don't think this is a huge problem though, as it forces the use/development
of things like delivery lockers, last-mile bike/foot delivery, pickup
stations, and just generally pushing back on the idea that a car should be
able to go everywhere until a human is absolutely forced to get out of the car
and walk.

I think cities/bigger towns would eventually (in my idealistic world vision)
have major highways/roads that go around them, and have primarily
foot/bike/public transit traffic for everything internal.

~~~
glenneroo
Domino's recently opened up some shops in Vienna, Austria and they gave a lot
of their delivery people e-bikes. UPS also seems to have people delivering
last-mile with e-bikes. Seems to work out great and they aren't clogging up
the streets with delivery cars parked everywhere, blocking entrances, etc.
like most other delivery services.

------
jjoske
When google initially invested in Boston Robots I thought was to try and solve
this problem.

~~~
Zigurd
I think you mean Boston Dynamics.

------
tardo99
I mean, the truth is these jobs will go away relatively soon because of drones
and robotics.

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Johnny555
_The security guard at the front door of the office building chastised me for
carrying the box, and told me that I should be using a dolly to transport it.
(None of the 19 videos I had to watch to be a Flex driver recommended bringing
a delivery cart or a dolly.)_

How could you not know this? Have you never seen another delivery driver? Do
you really need a training video to tell you that when you need to carry a lot
of heavy packages, you should use a dolly?

~~~
geezerjay
> Do you really need a training video to tell you that when you need to carry
> a lot of heavy packages, you should use a dolly?

Yes, you need.

Case in point, in the last half a dozen orders I've made that involved a
somewhat heavy and/or large package, not a single delivery service used a
dolly or delivery cart, even on orders from a certain multibational furniture
store.

You expect your employees to do their job safely? Then you explicitly cover
the safety procedure during training, and you directly and intentionally state
that it's in their best interests to do so. Otherwisr you can't possibly
assume they will comply with an implicit rule.

~~~
michaelt

      in the last half a dozen orders I've made that involved a
      somewhat heavy and/or large package, not a single delivery
      service used a dolly or delivery cart
    

I work for a company called Ocado that does grocery delivery right to people's
kitchens (unlike Amazon Flex, our drivers are employees, paid by the hour, and
drive company-owned vans). I've been out with drivers several times. Drivers
are issued with dollies and trained in their use.

Dollies are inherently a mixed blessing. You can pile more stuff on them - but
if you've got to get up a kerb, you've still got to be able to lift that
weight, and the dolly as well, and keep everything from sliding off at the
same time.

And it's not just kerbs. They've got steps up to their front door? Can't use
the dolly. Old flat/apartment without a lift? Can't use the dolly. Lift needs
a key you don't have? Can't use the dolly. They've got a gravel path? Can't
use the dolly. They've got a thick-bottomed UPVC door frame? Can't get the
dolly through it. On a steep hill? Dolly will make things harder...

And it turns out, in a city like London, there are a great many buildings with
one or more of these defects - and the worse the parking situation, the
further away you park the van, the more kerbs and things you're likely to need
to cross.

Hence, even though drivers are issued with dollies and trained in their use,
many deliveries are made without the dollies because they don't make things
all that much easier.

~~~
throwaway426079
You also don't want the dolly in your kitchen because you don't know what it
rolled over before that. As an Ocado driver pointed out to me.

~~~
mcherm
> You also don't want the dolly in your kitchen because you don't know what it
> rolled over before that.

How are the dolly's wheels any different from the delivery person's shoes?

~~~
throwaway426079
Only one person wears the shoes and (maybe) takes care where they walk. Many
people use a single dolly over different shifts and don't know what the last
user did with it.

