

Ask HN: Considering a move to the Bay Area with a family. Where should I live? - api

I have what might be a very good job offer in the Bay Area. Not going to reveal with whom, but it&#x27;s in the vicinity of Mountain View.<p>It would involve relocation to Silicon Valley, so evaluating the possibility of living there is a major part of evaluating the offer.<p>First, some background: I love tech and love to build things, but I also love other things too. I have a family and a five month old baby, and my wife wants to stay home while our kids are young and I support this as well. I am quite interested in developing my career, but I have no interest in becoming an unbalanced workaholic. I also want to have a life, pursue other things, and spend time with the people I love.<p>It&#x27;s not the job I&#x27;m concerned about here. It&#x27;s the real estate hyperinflation of the valley and the culture that this engenders.<p>So what I&#x27;m looking for is: if I want to lead a balanced life with a family, where should I live? Is there anywhere in the Bay Area (commutable to Mountain View in &lt;30-45 minutes) that isn&#x27;t unattainably expensive and where my wife and kids would feel comfortable living?<p>I&#x27;m looking for cultural insight, since financial insight is something I can do myself. I&#x27;ve already made a number of spreadsheets.<p>Edit: I&#x27;m more interested in the long view-- in neighborhoods we could eventually call home. I&#x27;m interested in areas where being a stay at home mom for a while isn&#x27;t terribly weird, where our kids would have other kids to play with, and where the cost isn&#x27;t so astronomical that it&#x27;s going to eat up any advantage from the job&#x27;s compensation.
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mchannon
I think of renting in the bay area much as I do of jobs and careers in the bay
area- almost nobody's in it for the long (5+-year) term, so it makes sense to
go for what makes sense now (within a longer term plan) and then readjust as
your conditions change.

The cheapest rents within a reasonable commute of MV are going to be in East
Palo Alto. These are still ridiculously high (compared to other metro areas),
and the crime rate there is the highest on the peninsula (still very tame by
most big city standards; I've never been in another metro area where most
residents don't really in their gut understand what crime is).

Many people put up with the commute from the east bay, and Union City/Fremont
can save you a few hundred dollars a month on rent. Run your hourly rate
against the hours spent in traffic and the east bay probably comes out behind.
If your wife wants a social life while she stays home, there's probably a
little bit more of that in the east bay (from personal experience, there's
just not very much room for that in Silicon Valley- nearly everyone's there to
work to make the rent or mortgage).

Best wishes- if you're coming from a smaller place you may find your perceived
standard of living is quite low for the amount of wealth and income that
everybody seems to have.

In order to guide you better, may want to give us an impression of what metro
area you're coming from.

~~~
api
Currently in Asheville, North Carolina. Lived for six years in Boston, which
is not as expensive as the Bay Area but certainly isn't cheap.

Asheville is hugely cheaper than the Bay, but isn't particularly cheap by its
local standards.

~~~
yolesaber
How are you enjoying Asheville? I've always entertained dreams of moving there
because I love the woods and being around nature, but I also don't want to be
disconnected from the music scene, happenings in the art world etc.

~~~
api
Asheville

\- The good:

It's gorgeous. Really. One of the most beautiful places in the country.

The art and music scene here will _not_ compare to a New York or a San
Francisco, but compared to other half a million person small cities Asheville
punches _waaaay_ over its weight class. Its art and music scene is better than
many medium sized (2-4 million) cities. There are lots of festivals too, like
this: [http://mountainoasisfestival.com](http://mountainoasisfestival.com)

The food here is incredible. It's easily as good or better than the food you
will find in Boston and New York. It is difficult to find a bad restaurant
downtown.

There is, of course, tons of beautiful outdoors stuff to do: hiking, biking,
kayaking, backpacking, mountain climbing, just about anything except skiing
(it's the South, no snow). There's lakes not far away too, including some that
permit power boating. So there is _that_ kind of skiing.

Weather is nice. It can get a little cold/snowy in the winter. Hard winters
are not unknown but are rare. Last winter was very mild. Summers are warm but
since it's up in the mountains you do not get the soul crushing Southern heat
you get in, say, Atlanta or Orlando.

If you are a single heterosexual man... well... you will probably like it. I'm
not so it doesn't matter to me, but if I were I would not have been
disappointed.

If you're gay, I know there's a decent gay scene. I'm not so I can't talk
about that from first hand experience. It's also generally a pretty tolerant
place.

Finally, downtown is alive. Unlike most interior cities, Asheville revolves
around its center. There are lots of people walking around and lots of people
(including me) live right in the middle of the city.

\- The bad:

It's a small town. It can feel small after a while.

The tech scene is so-so. There are a few decent startups and a few major
employers, but keep in mind this is a small city. If you're looking for a hot
tech scene you'll be disappointed. Personally I kinda wanted a break from
that, so I didn't care. I found a good job and picked up some very interesting
freelance work. If I turn down the Silicon Valley offer I may go more in a
freelance direction, and try to bootstrap my own startup project too.

Asheville is an island amid the pentecostal / fundamentalist Christian back
country of Appalachia. Drive for 30 minutes in any direction and you are in
the _hiiieeeeells_.

The job market frankly sucks for most people. If you're in tech -- and
_especially_ if you can freelance/telecommute -- you can escape it to some
extent. But the joke is that Asheville has the "best educated wait staff in
the country." It's not really a joke. Underemployment is a huge problem.

And real estate here including rent is not cheap when you compare it to the
median income. It looks cheap compared to Silicon Valley, but SV also has a
lot of high salaries that you'd find it hard to earn here (unless you can
telework / freelance / startup). The RE market is distorted because Asheville
is a major vacation and retirement destination.

You have to advance your own dreams or career goals. Unlike big, driven
cities, the city's culture will not push you. It is easy to get comfortable
and give up. (This is a problem outside any of the major cities, honestly.)

------
developer74
I'm glad to see your question, because I'm asking similar questions! The
housing market seems prohibitive for a family to move to the area, especially
for someone who wants to keep their family as their main priority.

Have you looked south, to Morgan Hill or Gilroy? That's a longer commute, but
it seems like you can get more for your money. And many companies offer
shuttles so you can at least avoid some of the traffic pain.

I've also read that the housing market is very competitive, and there are many
offers on houses. So if you look for real estate and find things you might
like, that doesn't mean you'll get it. You may end up settling for what's left
over after the cash buyers with offers 10% over asking price have cleaned up
the good stuff.

If I were single or even young and married with no kids, I'd make the move in
a heartbeat just for the sense of adventure and to see what happened. With
kids and a family (especially kids in middle school), it's not so easy. It's
important to settle somewhere good on the first try and not risk moving around
a lot. It seems very daunting to find a place to live, with good schools, a
safe and nice neighborhood, with a commute that is doable, and a house that
isn't a million dollars.

I guess you can't have it all.

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hkarthik
I was in almost the exact situation as you about a year ago.

I had an offer in hand from a well known company in Palo Alto to join one of
their innovation labs. From a career standpoint, it would have been a game
changer.

However, like yourself, I have a young family with small children that I like
to spend time with. Moving from Texas to the Bay Area would have quadrupled
our cost of living, for only a modest increase in salary compared to other,
work-from-home opportunities I was getting. So I chose to take one of those
other opportunities.

The conclusion I've reached is this: if you didn't start your career in
Silicon Valley or SF, it is exceedingly difficult to adjust your life to fit
in there when you are more experienced and have family responsibilities.

If you still want to do it, I would suggest renting for a year in Mountain
View, Menlo Park, or Palo Alto. If you don't mind a little bit of a drive, you
can look at Redwood City or San Mateo. Don't worry about the "long view" as
you will need to gauge the situation after you get there and don't be at all
surprised if after a year, your family wants to move out.

Feel free to email me if you have more questions. Email is in my profile.

------
ad_bfl
You looking for an apartment or a house to rent? An apartment may be a bit
easier to find, but rents right now are pretty high. My business partner just
went through this exercise for her sister and it was not fun to say the least.

I live mid peninsula - meaning Belmont, and know the area around me pretty
well after living here some 25+ years.

Foster city is pretty kid friendly and a bit cheaper, but be prepared for
finding a place to be a challenge in general.

The commute to MV by car can be a nightmare depending on time of day, you may
consider taking the train to MV and biking to the office.

Redwood city and Menlo park are also options, but neighborhoods in these areas
area a lot like New York City, a block or two can be a HUGE difference in
neighbors and whether or not you will feel comfortable.

~~~
api
An apartment initially, probably a lower cost (in Bay Area terms) one at
first, but my thoughts are more long term. I would eventually like to
contemplate renting something on a long term basis or buying. The latter seems
almost unattainable unless I want to go all the way down to South San Jose or
similar, but I'm curious about what locals think and I know there's a lot of
SF people on this site.

BTW: the thing that has me floored is that the offer would be jaw-droppingly
good anywhere else, but has me wondering if it's worth it in the Bay Area.
Your real estate costs are mind-numbingly insane. In the long term something
has to be done about this or employers are going to start fleeing the area in
search of reasonable wage environments, because employees in the valley have
to ask for at least 50% higher wages simply to break even with other places.

What are your thoughts on east bay: Newark and Fremont and such?

~~~
jrbeal
I was born and raised in the area (born at Stanford. Went to high schools in
Mountain View and San Jose) and can tell you that the high prices and wages
are nothing new. I remember saying the same thing as you back in the 80's.
(re: "employers are going to start fleeing...") Needless to say, it never
happened! And I doubt it ever will.

Speaking of South San Jose, that's where I last lived (before leaving the
area) and commuted all the way to Palo Alto every day. It wasn't so bad back
in the 80's (around 30 minutes) but I have no idea what it's like now. Maybe
it's better!

I have a sister who still lives there and is a top-notch real-estate agent.
I'm sure she'd be happy to help with any questions. Let me know if you need
her number.

~~~
api
Just curious: why did you leave? Cost? Job elsewhere? Just for a change?

~~~
jrbeal
My company transferred me to Texas. I'd probably still be there otherwise.

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jason_slack
I moved to San Jose from a small NY town back in 2007. What I quickly realized
that is that 30-45 mins away is very wide spread and there are times when
driving an hour might not get you very far :-)

If the job is in Mountain View, maybe consider Sunnyvale, Cupertino. Morgan
Hill would take you 45-1hr with good traffic. Longer at times. Santa Clara.

There is Fremont/Union City but that is outside 30-45 mins usually, I would
say. I dont know about the schools.

Really good schools in Cupertino, but higher rent and house prices for sure.

E-Mail in profile you wanna chat about this.

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tptacek
You're probably looking for something like San Mateo. Midway between San
Francisco and Mountain View, so you're not committed to South Bay companies.
Relatively(!) affordable and family friendly.

------
RNeff
Ask your new employer for a realtor recommendation, talk to him/her. You have
not internalized how expensive the area is and how bad the traffic is. The
bridges and the freeways are maxed out during commute. Each city has good
areas and not so good areas often next to each other. Newark and Fremont are
at least an hour each way to MV. Live close to MV or close to a CalTrain
Station. For schools, your choices are Palo Alto, Menlo Park, or a private
school.

~~~
api
I've encountered this kind of sentiment elsewhere too. It's incredible... not
even New York could make a solid six-figure offer almost look like a Wal-Mart
wage.

The school situation is puzzling to me. The tax base should be fine, and the
majority of the schools I see get high ratings on a nationwide basis. Is this
genuinely a problem, or is a Valley resident's idea of a bad school one where
the majority of the graduates do not get into top-ten universities? Cause my
idea of a bad school is one where you have to go through a metal detector to
get in and the majority of their graduates go nowhere. :)

Great tip about the traffic too. I went off Google directions, and I'm
guessing those times are for light non-rush-hour traffic.

~~~
quadlock
when you inch along in traffic, you can be 15 mins to your destination for a
long time.

------
ishbits
Just going through the same thing with my wife and 2 kids. We thought
California might be good for a lifestyle change, but I'm not sure of the
valley is the place.

My employer has offices in Sunnyvale and Costs Mesa. But I'm finding the real
estate a little crazy.

------
rdouble
San Mateo

~~~
api
Looks promising. I see that the schools are not quite as highly ranked as Palo
Alto and similar, but aren't bad. They seem to be ranked higher than where I
presently live.

