
Another awesome US immigration experience - nphase
http://seldo.tumblr.com/post/39891584034/another-awesome-us-immigration-experience
======
jacquesm
As long as you feel the benefits outweigh the downsides the only person you
can complain to is yourself. You're still going there aren't you?

I've had an episode quite comparable to this one and it was the last time I
visited the US. I don't bitch about it, I don't begrudge the border guards
their jobs or attitude (I assume they get a lot of shit heaped on them every
day, not an excuse for a non-professional attitude but I'm sure that it
eventually wears you down). I simply took my few-hundred-K per year benefit
for the US elsewhere, their loss.

Don't like US immigration? Good, don't emigrate to the US. Once enough people
do this that it starts to affect the US GDP I'm sure there will be some
change. As long as everybody accepts it this will continue or it will even get
worse.

I had a pretty lucrative offer about two years ago to become involved in a
company. The catch: the work had to be done in the United States. No thanks...
But call me when the TSA is abandoned and the border guards are no longer
treating immigrants like shit. You know, the way it used to be before
everybody went crazy.

And on an off-topic and non-related note, additional conditions would be that
Guantanamo is closed, the US ceases its drone program and the CIA gets
thoroughly reamed for their 'renditions' program, including full exposure of
all parties that were involved domestically and abroad.

Until then the US will have to do without me, I'm quite sure they don't care
one bit.

~~~
jimmaswell
> Don't like US immigration? Good, don't emigrate to the US. Once enough
> people do this that it starts to affect the US GDP I'm sure there will be
> some change.

Less immigrants would negatively affect the GDP? I've heard the opposite many
times, but I'm not an economist. Why is that so?

~~~
lbarrow
There's no realistic situation in which having another person working in a
country decreases its GDP. GDP is simply the sum of all goods and services
after net exports and investments. Given that a working person is, by
definition, producing a good or service, their contribution to GDP is always
positive.

~~~
ajg1977
Not always true - see Wall St circa 2008.

------
DrSbaitso
I'm a Canadian citizen and get this type of treatment all the time. Every time
I enter the US, which is about once a month or so, they send me to a back room
for secondary screening. The reason? Their system thinks I overstayed my visa
once back in 1995. What actually happened was my family took a road trip to
New England, and nobody bothered to check our passports on the way out, so
there was no departure record.

So for the last 18 years, they've sent me back for questioning every single
time, wasting countless hours of both my time and their time. They always ask
me if I worked illegally in the States in 1995 and I just tell them, "No, I
was nine years old." When I ask them if they can remove the flag on my
account, they say it's impossible because only the government department that
created the flag can remove it, and that department no longer exists.

~~~
adrianmsmith
Over the years, I guess you've tried various different approaches talking to
the staff at immigration. Friendly, apologetic, assertive, and so on.

What worked best? What would you recommend for someone else in that situation?

~~~
jzwinck
Say as little as possible. Speak clearly. And if entering the UK, have a bank
statement with you. They like people with money (this is not something I made
up, it's in the immigration rules, called "maintenance").

~~~
Nursie
If you have no money then you may be there to make some (is the thinking).

If you can show you have enough money to support yourself and get out again
then it will make your life easier. However they will already need to be
suspicious of you to take an interest in this.

~~~
nicholassmith
From what I've heard, Australia does the same and so do a few other places.
The question is often framed as "and how much money have you brought along for
your holiday?", which is doubly loaded as there's a right answer and two wrong
answers (nothing and X, where X is bordering on enough to kick start a new
life). Immigration sucks.

~~~
patrickk
Australia has an actual dollar amount (AU$3000 I think) that you have to have
before getting a one year work visa. A friend went there recently and that was
his experience.

------
zee007
I had many similar run-ins with immigration when I worked for Microsoft in the
Redmond area (brown guy with a beard, likes to travel the world [sometimes
taking trips as short as one weekend]). I've missed more than my share of
flights (at one time my name was in the do-not-fly list because it partially
matched the name of someone they wanted).

Final straw came when one time I was returning from an international trip with
my x-wife and kids when the immigration officer decided she didn't qualify to
accompany me (we were married at the time).

"No big deal, she'll just fly back to Canada" (we're Canadians). We were told
she couldn't do that, she had to be deported to the country she came from.
"But sir, we just had a single entry visa and cannot re-enter". "That's not my
problem, the law is the law. You need to be deported back to countryX". "But
sir, we have no ties to countryX. We dont have visa to countryX. We have a
Canadian passport, if you dont want to admit us then let us just turn around
and go to Canada". "Oh y'all can come in, but she can't".

So I ask for a supervisor and he refused (I later learned he wasn't allowed to
do that). Had us sit there for many hours with cranky kids after a
transatlantic flight and then said:

"You can take her now (take her??) but I'll hold on to her passport. She can
come before the judge in 30 days with the document and collect her passport or
she'll be deported to countryX".

I had to unnecessarily waste time and money hiring a lawyer to figure out what
the heck went wrong. She showed up 30 days later with our lawyer and the judge
couldn't figure out why she was there. Gave us the passport. My x-wife dropped
me home, told me to pack up and drove up to Toronto the same day. Even though
I was about to get my green card (everything including labour cert was done) I
told my employer to halt the process and moved back. For next few years I
continued to work for US companies but remotely from Canada and pulled in
close to $1 million in salary and stocks over the years that IRS wasn't able
to tax at all. Canadian economy (not the American economy) benefited from my
well over average spending over these years.

I can wrap my mind around "your name is similar to xyz we are looking for
[even though xyz was a different ethnicity with a different age, height and
everything]. But for me this made me realize how vulnerable non-citizens are
when it comes to US immigration and border patrol. To this day I have no idea
what ticked that guy off to single us out like that but I decided I did not
want to live in a country where I had such little rights. I am well educated,
make a lot of charitable contributions and spend a lot of time volunteering in
the local community. Everything the US used to benefit from but now Canada
does.

~~~
jacquesm
I have no idea why you got downvoted.

~~~
zee007
I don't either especially since I am not even bitter about the experience. I
am just confused.

The irony is that since then I've crossed the border 12+ times a year and the
experience is always pleasant (now I enter as a Canadian citizen for either
vacation or a short business trip). One would think they'd have preferred me
when I paid taxes there (and by the virtue of being on visa, they knew a lot
more about me).

~~~
SoftwareMaven
As a US citizen, I, on the other hand, am extremely bitter and angry about
these kinds of offenses. It makes me sick to my stomach and I really do
believe every day is one day closer to me becoming an expat.

~~~
kmfrk
Your government at work trying to make that as unpleasant as possible:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FATCA>.

~~~
jacquesm
That is - for want of a better word - an astounding piece of legislation.
What's next, a deal with the hereafter? I figure that the only thing this will
effectively accomplish is that a lot of American expats will go all the way
and will ditch the American nationality and that a lot of people in the United
States will be denied access to services. Brilliant move, the world-stage
equivalent of the schoolyard bully mentality.

------
rdl
I hate how hostile and incompetent the US immigration process seems to be for
foreigners. It's sad to go by an embassy basically anywhere in the world, see
the fortress that is the US embassy, and the huge lines and amount of
documentation needed for people to get US visas. Even worse is the non-
deterministic hell on actual arrival.

I'm glad I've never had immigration or customs problems anywhere, despite
going to some really sketchy places (flying into Iraq as a civilian at the
civilian airport with no visa a few times after the invasion...) or otherwise
bending the rules ($200k in computers, including 6 big 21" CRTs, on my way to
set up an office in Anguilla...).

~~~
jzwinck
I'm a US citizen, and recently visited my embassy abroad. I was denied entry
and told to make an appointment. The first available was about 10 days away.
This was for a simple document I needed signed by them. And I was leaving this
country in less than 10 days. The guard who turned me away said they used to
take walk-ins but not since mid-2012.

So as far as embassies go, being a citizen doesn't help too much.

~~~
patrickod
My experience with US embassies (both the one in Brussels and Dublin) has
never seen them refuse entry to a US citizen and tell them to re-schedule.
They usually have separate entrances as well with different procedures.

~~~
jzwinck
Well this was in London. It's a large embassy obviously. They do have separate
entrances--we went to the US Citizens one. We were blocked from even entering
the security lobby at all--the outermost door to the street was locked and the
guard who cracked it open gave us a postcard with the embassy contact
information to make an appointment. I called them immediately and explained I
was in front of their building and could I make an "appointment" for right
then, but they said I had to use the website. Which told me there was a 10-day
wait.

As I said, apparently this practice was instituted just last year.

~~~
patrickod
From my (albeit limited) observations I thought they never turned away
citizens but obviously I was wrong. Getting appointments with the US embassy
can sometimes be a challenging ordeal. They do however make allowances for
emergency appointments which can be very helpful at times.

~~~
rdl
Yeah, in general they help citizens pretty well, and help citizens a lot more
in dangerous places. Although to get US citizen services in Baghdad was really
complex; despite it being inside a fairly secure area (the "Green Zone"), I
wasn't allowed to carry inside, had to make an appointment a week in advance,
etc. I ended up just making friends with people at a nearby heliport who had
badges to escort me in. It turns out most of the extra security was because
they had slightly better quality food than the nearby military bases, and were
trying to keep military people and contractors from eating all of it.

The Embassies in Bangkok, Abu Dhabi, Kuwait, etc. were all excellent, however.

------
ryan
If you have a green card you can avoid this by signing up for Global Entry[1].
Then you can avoid customs lines and just swipe your card at the kiosk - enter
the country without ever talking to anyone. As an extra benefit the kiosk is
always empty so you are through in minutes... hmm maybe I shouldn't be
spreading the word about this :)

[1] <http://www.globalentry.gov/>

~~~
onetwothreefour
Serious question: can you be non-white and get one of these?

~~~
jfb
Why would you think otherwise?

~~~
onetwothreefour
The same reason the "random checks" line at security isn't really random?

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
In Canada their "random checks" seem to be via a machine/automated process.
You stand on a mat and an arrow either directs you into a line or to
additional checks, so there can be no racial or otherwise profiling.

It is a great system, I really enjoyed it when I was there.

------
ta201301
This is precisely the sort of nonsense that made me decide to leave my job a
few years ago. I used to work for <household name Internet technology
company>. After some re-structuring I would have had to travel to the US a lot
more often, or possibly even move to the US. For me it wasn't really worth it.
The dehumanizing experience of subjecting myself to dangerously stupid,
underpaid, over-empowered, assholes on a bi-weekly basis made the decision
easy.

While I do love California, and the Bay Area in particular, it is still inside
the US. And I do not enjoy travelling to the US. To get to the US you have to
go through the twilight zone that is immigration and customs. Not to mention
the TSA.

I can remember travelling to germany as a kid during the Baader-Meinhof
terrorist era. I can remember that I felt it was somewhat unpleasant being
pointed at by germans with sub-machine guns. But you know what: they were not
even half as frightening as the sort of personel you encounter when travelling
to, from or within the US. Because with the germans you at least have the
sense that the people holding the gungs are not the lowest life-forms of their
society.

But I am not complaining. Taking this choice meant that I had to figure out
what to do. And now, some years later, over 100 people have jobs because I
don't want to travel to the US ever again.

------
blago
I am a US citizen and I had a similar experience. About a year ago I spent a
few months in Asia while working remotely for my US employer. Reentering the
states (after an almost 24 hour trip), the border agent really didn't like the
fact and went out of his way to find a hole in my "story" - "So you did work
in Asia?", "But your company did not send you there?" This dragged on for a
while.

This was the climax of the confrontation:

\- "Have you been in trouble with law enforcement before?"

\- "No, but you make it sound like I am now. Am I?"

\- "We'll see"

\- "I am a law abiding citizen and I've been giving honest answers to all of
you questions. What can I possibly be afraid of?"

Ever since, I DREAD reentering the states. I have dual citizenship, work
flexibility, and friends and family all over the place. I find myself spending
less and less time in the US.

------
iloveponies
So I've experienced something similar minus the overcrowded room with British
immigration. I watched the immigration official turn from apathy the moment I
handed my passport over into passive agression with loaded questions ("When
was the last time you were deported?" answer: "never") into apologies ("Sorry
for making you wait sir there clearly has been a misunderstanding") to vague
answers to the question of future prevention.

After being told "and there's nothing you can do to stop this happening
again", I tell every British immigration official I stand before briefly what
happens every time I want to come back here and they're usually understanding
about it all.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
British immigration are as bad as US immigration.

They aren't even polite, which as a Brit' myself I am both shocked and
disappointed with.

I'd like to see changes there...

~~~
X-Istence
Until you Brits do away with the requirement for me to go through the porno
scanners I refuse to visit the country. Sorry, but just because I am traveling
from your country doesn't mean I want to go through a machine that to date
still hasn't been verifiable been tested by a 3rd party to not have negative
health risks associated with it.

~~~
iloveponies
As someone who goes in and out of the UK on a regular basis, this is news to
me as I've yet to be subjected to full body scanners.

~~~
X-Istence
[http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/no-
optou...](http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/no-optout-for-
passengers-on-body-scanners-6265565.html)

[http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6c8bd4-142b-11e1-b07b-00144feabd...](http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/ca6c8bd4-142b-11e1-b07b-00144feabdc0.html)

[http://www.prisonplanet.com/despite-eu-ban-uk-makes-
radiatio...](http://www.prisonplanet.com/despite-eu-ban-uk-makes-radiation-
firing-body-scanners-compulsory.html)

------
Permit
>They keep taking breaks to crack off-color jokes about each other’s sex
lives, and moan about how hard they’re having to work tonight.

The jokes might be uncalled for, but you just told us they were under-staffed
and had hundreds of extra people to process. I can see why they'd be upset.
Especially when absolutely zero of the hundreds of people they talk to in a
day are happy to see them.

I get the impression you've never worked in the service industry or in retail.
The immense fuckup that is United States immigration is not the fault of its
lowest level employees.

~~~
mscarborough
One of the first rules of service industry is that you don't complain about
your job in front of the customers. I haven't worked retail but have done
plenty of years in restaurants.

I'm not sure how you can use "you've never worked in the service industry" as
some kind of trump card, as this kind of behavior could easily get you fired
from any half-decent service industry position.

~~~
tolmasky
That's in a private company. Here, for all practical purposes, there is no
incentive for things to get better. There is no one to complain to since the
"customers" here are completely antagonized and have no power, imagine on top
of all this complaining! There really isn't anyone to be held accountable,
period.

And no, "voting" is not the way these things get fixed. if it was, the DMV
would have stopped being miserable ages ago:

1\. As mentioned above, the people most affected can't vote.

2\. Even if they could, it's not clear at all how to use your vote to affect
change. Which candidate exactly represents better service at government
agencies?

3\. Even if you knew, you get effectively four federal representative choices
that _could_ affect this (president, 2 senators, and 1 house representative).
In those 4 choices you must weigh _all_ your grievances. How high on the list
is immigration staffing going to be?

The reality is that our system is not set up to deal with this kind of
particular issue well. There's no good gradual feedback loop. Things have to
get really bad, beyond where it's clear exactly what caused the problems, to
the point where _huge_ sweeping changes get made, probably over zealous and
too far in the opposite direction then.

~~~
jrockway
Isn't the whole DMV thing largely fixed? In Manhattan, they even have
"express" DMVs. I have to assume the idea came about due to voter pressure
rather than some altruistic bureaucrat.

~~~
tolmasky
I can't speak for New York but going to the DMV in California often means
committing an entire work day.

~~~
jrockway
Sounds like California.

------
rajeshd
His experience doesn't seem all that bad. It looks like they were merely doing
their jobs trying to ascertain that they aren't making a mistake letting him
in. If the immigration officer isn't sure of something (either because of an
unclear answer to a question or a nervous vibe), it's not abnormal for him/her
to ask for a more thorough check of the person. I wouldn't expect them to
clear everyone with a quick, cursory glance of a passport or a green card.

I sympathize with him, but it doesn't look like his rights were violated in
anyway.

~~~
GiraffeNecktie
You're setting a very, very, low bar for "doing their jobs". The reason we
employ human beings at border points is so that they will, theoretically, use
good judgement to allow the free flow of legitimate goods and travelers (i.e.
not create massive delays without a clear reason).

------
jfb
I like particularly the sneering attitude of superiority towards the initial
immigration officer in this article. I'm no apologist for the US immigration
system (Canada's, on the other hand, I have nothing but good words for), but
Jesus creeping Christ, having to deal with that sort of entitled horseshit ten
hours a day would turn the Buddha into Dick Cheney.

~~~
seldo
I can see why you'd think that, but I was totally polite and respectful to the
immigration officer at all times -- like I said, I'm a very nervous immigrant,
so I would never do anything to jeopardize my processing. I don't fidget or
roll my eyes, or indicate impatience. While I'm no fan of the staff of the
USCIS, I would never say anything to them to indicate it. Apart from it being
very impolite, it would be stupid, and I am TERRIFIED of these guys.

~~~
jfb
I understand the terror, particularly of the US ICE people, who are
unnecessarily militarized at the best of times. But why the puerile jab at the
officer's "educational attainment"? Needed to feel big? Story wasn't "punchy"
enough?

~~~
seldo
Partly because I think it's a relevant detail -- I think he genuinely didn't
understand that a web developer is a type of software developer. But partly
because they scared the shit out of me, and the system is stupid and
unnecessarily hostile, so, yes, I'm angry at them.

~~~
jfb
It's not only insulting and juvenile, it's irrelevant. I've met PhDs from the
LSE who wouldn't know the difference between email and snail mail, but that's
not material to a) how good they were at their jobs or b) whether or not they
were good people.

The system _is_ stupid, and hostile, and (in my opinion) totally self-
defeating. And people -- normal, decent people -- will act like petty little
tyrants in that sort of system. Isn't _that_ sufficient to call them out? An
asshole is an asshole, regardless of their eduction, no?

 _EDIT_ : Too, it may very well be material that you gave a different answer.
There's only one word different between "landscape architect" and "naval
architect", and those are significantly and materially different positions.
How is J. Random Tyrant supposed to know that a is a member of the set b for
all given a?

 _EDIT the second_ : Man, I was in love with the word "material", eh?

~~~
seldo
You're not wrong. On further consideration, I've edited the post to reflect
that it was a rude and unnecessary observation.

------
photorized
As someone who went though lengthy (10+ years) immigration process, from
student visa to work visa to Green Card to Citizenship, with extensive travel
in between - there is nothing particularly unreasonable about the experience
described. OK, so he was delayed for a few hours, due to some error or
inconsistency in the USCIS database... There's no reason to freak out.

And the condescending remarks about the officer not knowing the difference
between "web developer" and "software developer" were unnecessary.

------
flavmartins
I completely agree with your feelings here. I, too, am a permanent resident
with a green card. I live in fear of immigration deciding that "something
isn't in order" and then my life is completely upside down. I've grown up in
the US, my wife is a US citizen, my kids are all US citizens, yet dad always
has that crazy worry in the back of his mind.

AND...for those of you who brush this off. Please contact my wife and ask her
feelings about immigration. When I was going through my green card process she
just about went nuts at the immigration office and destroyed a few of the
workers. Eventually she had to stop coming to the appointments and just wished
me luck. She is more frustrated with the process than I am.

The problem is that we're talking about immigrants here. No one is going to
stand up for them. Citizens never have to deal with the these issues, and most
immigrants, once they've gone through the process, never want to look back on
it again, let alone try to fight it.

------
surfmike
It's embarrassing how poorly people are treated when entering the US. We
should put pressure on the government to improve that, but also pragmatically
if we want to keep attracting talented people from around the world we really
need to change this.

For the time being, I'd highly recommend to the poster to enter into Global
Entry (people with PR are eligible:
<http://www.globalentry.gov/eligibility.html>)

~~~
smsm42
Second that. All you need is your papers, short interview in a closest major
airport and you don't have to do this passport-fingerprint-photo stuff
anymore.

------
smsm42
Let's look at the incentives. The picture here is not pretty. There's a big
incentive to squeeze budgets, of course, anybody who watches US politics knows
you can't just get any money you want, especially when there's 2 dozen another
3-letter agencies competing for the same. There's some incentive to serve
citizens better - since once in the country, the citizen can call his
congressmen or his local paper and raise hell if he was mistreated, and if
bureaucratic middle-management hates something it is being featured in bad
press and asked unpleasant question by his superiors. But when it comes to
visitors, there's pretty much zero incentive to treat them better. I'm not
saying that immediately leads to bad treatment - I am a non-citizen, I crossed
US border more than a dozen times last few years and always was treated with
courtesy and respect, which I assign to the good nature of the people that
worked there. But there always are bad apples, and there's very little that
can keep those in check. If the immigration officer mistakenly denies entry or
costs a person 5 hours of their life, there are no consequences, ever. So
these things are bound to happen, unless some kind of incentive to become
better will be found.

~~~
seldo
One of those incentives could be if US citizens decided to complain about the
immigration system -- the point of the post is to attempt to marginally
contribute towards that happening.

~~~
jakejake
As sad as it may be I don't think the average US citizen is concerned about a
5-hour delay for non-citizens at the border. The ordinary Joe is likely to be
OK with 200 people being delayed if that results in a few people being
deported and 1 person being hauled off to jail (which is pretty much what the
OP said happened). I have a feeling the "average" consensus would be that it
was worth in in order to keep those 4 people out.

I'm not saying I agree with this whatsoever - I'm just saying my gut tells me
this mentality is likely to get you more votes if you are running for office
in a border state. The average citizen is not thinking about the relatively
small number of skilled IT workers and entrepreneurs entering the country.
They are thinking about all of the unskilled labor that is coming in and
"taking their jobs" as some people perceive.

That, plus I'm sure there is an aspect of "doesn't affect me - I have my own
problems to worry about".

------
ajg1977
_Pointless, wasteful bureaucracy_

I think few people would consider border controls to be any of these things.

You were flagged somehow and that sucks, but if you don't like the immigration
procedures of the US you are free to either a) live elsewhere or b) try to
take action to change it (we are a democracy after all). On the other hand,
venting on a blog isn't going to do anything but irk people who wish they were
fortunate enough to hold a US green card, or come back to haunt you if this
happens again and some cranky overworked agent google's you.

FWIW I'm a former, now naturalized, US green card holder and this happened to
me twice in six years. It sucks, but I considered it a very small price to pay
for being able to freely travel and work (or not work!) in this country.

~~~
natrius
"Venting on a blog" is most certainly considered action in a democracy. That's
basically what the Federalist Papers were.

~~~
ajg1977
Aye, they were just some guys blowing out their frustrations.

Or not.

------
Mvandenbergh
There is nothing unique to the US about this in my experience. There is
literally one part of the government that deals (by definition) with people
who cannot vote and do not have elected representatives.

If you want to know what it's like dealing with government agents in highly
undemocratic countries, it's precisely this. Except it's every day and it's in
your own country.

------
dkokelley
I would not want to be a non-citizen in America. I love my country, but I
agree with the general sentiment that we have things very wrong when it comes
to treatment of non-citizens. I believe that much of it stems from fears about
9/11. The Bill of Rights does lots to protect US citizens from an
agressive/repressive government. The spirit of the law is that there are basic
human rights that the government can't remove without due process.
Unfortunately those "human" rights in practice only barely apply to US
citizens.

~~~
philwelch
Perhaps when entering the country, and there is a risk of deportation, and the
difficulty of immigrating legally puts far too many people on unsafe footing
due to the constant risk of being reported, but on a basic, everyday level you
have the same rights. If you get pulled over on the road, the cop can't search
your car without a warrant, whether you're a US citizen or just a tourist.

~~~
dkokelley
This is true, but I would argue that it's only true because of the assumption
that random driver being pulled over is a citizen (or rather that you can't
ask a citizen if he or she is a citizen. This was part of the big deal with
Arizona's new laws a year or two ago).

When writing my post, I was considering the "unlimited detainment", and lack
of due process for non-citizens in too many special cases.

------
tlear
Was coming back from NYC (vacation over Christmas) and got the typical BS
bully treatment by the security guy, I made a decision there, I will not go on
vacation to US ever again.

------
tinbad
As a non-US citizen, I've had similar experiences where I was taken apart and
asked some more questions by border patrol. However none of those experiences,
although very similar to yours, came over as unnecessary harassment. I don't
quiet understand why you would be 'terrified' crossing the border if you have
all your shit together, which it seems you have.

The people "whose educational attainments have qualified them to sit behind a
desk stamping passports" were simply doing their job and from what you
described they did it without causing more inconvenience for you than
necessary.

Like some others commented, if you don't like to abide by the rules of your
new country of residence, nobody is forcing you to be there. Oh, and
downplaying other people's intellectual abilities does come across quiet
snobbish :)

------
trimbo
This story is true the world over. A friend got deported from India the other
day for a mistake they (as in the Indian government) made on his visa.

------
stickdick
There's somebody on the US no-fly list that has the exact same name as me. I
can't check-in online with any airline, and checking in at the desk anywhere
in the US results in some sort of warning on their computer, and a quick call
to somebody to come out from the back and check it out. Unfortunately I have
to fly at least once a month.

A quick look over the passport shows it's obviously not me (though I don't
have any details of the real bad guy). Must happen to quite a few because I
have a fairly bland, common British name.

~~~
UnoriginalGuy
Didn't they try to resolve this by issuing redress numbers or whatever? When I
enter my passport on most airline's web-sites it gives me the option to add a
redress number, which in theory should allow them to identify you as NOT the
individual on the no-fly list.

See this:
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#DHS_Traveler_Redres...](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Fly_List#DHS_Traveler_Redress_Inquiry_Program)

~~~
stickdick
Interesting. I've never really looked into it, I just get over the fact I have
to check-in at the airport, and over time it's become less embarrassing since
I just expect to see the assistants face drop in panic, and be pulled to the
side.

It's never been mentioned to me either. I'm not actually a US citizen, so
perhaps it doesn't apply. I'll look into it further, thanks for the advice.

------
codegeek
Seems like you name might be similar to a name they had in their database who
might have the criminal/arrest record. These are false hits and irritating but
once the verify, they let you go. Hope they correct it soon for you.

Also, sometimes they randomly (not sure how random though) select individuals
for what they call "secondary inspection". Here, you are just asked "extra"
questions to ensure you are not a threat. I was pulled over once and the guy
had a great time asking me all kinds of questions.

~~~
seldo
It's highly unlikely to be a name match -- my name is not very common, and
combined with my gender is literally globally unique: there is no other male
called Laurie Voss in the whole world.

~~~
DoubleMalt
See ... very suspicious. No MAN is called Laurie. Seriously.

Sorry for your experence. WIll try to avoid MIA, as this is not the first bad
story I heard from there.

------
cunac
I am Canadian citizen and for two years I was traveling every second week to
US on TN visa. In all that time I got 1 "bad" experience from US side and 2
from Canadian side. (it wasn't that bad just longer questioning with 'trick'
questions) Question which confused me a most entering Canada was "How long you
plan to stay ?" , WTF , I have Canadian passport ? It took me a moment not to
say "Not your damn business." and just play nice.... But in general crossing
border is 99% no issue

------
alexkus
My first two attempts at entry to the US on my H1-B were simple, maybe one
question and in I go. It was the third entry that they asked more questions
and asked to see more paperwork (which I did have with me).

I guess it's to catch people who obtain visa/green-cards and then pass them
off to others or their situation changes (and they no longer qualify for the
visa). I'd also guess that frequent visitors to the US go through at least one
of these increased scrutiny experiences every few years. I don't think it's
unreasonable given the amount of problems they have with people trying to
sneak into the country; I know that I don't have a right to be there so I
expect some hassle.

The only other problem I had was coming back into the US after I'd gone to
Canada for a friend's wedding (all on a VWP); so UK->US, then two weeks later
US->Canada->US, and I wasn't due to fly back to the UK for another 2 weeks or
so. I was nowhere near the 90 days of my original VWP, but they might have
thought I was taking a quick trip to Canada in order to reset my 90 days with
a new VWP entry. It just took a few extra minutes explanation.

Other than that I've done lots of trips to the US (20 on the Visa Waiver
Program, 5 with my H1-B and another 10 or so since I moved back to the UK)
with no problems at all.

------
aneth4
Immigration processes millions of people each day. There are going to be
mistakes.

This sounds like they got a false positive, investigated, and released him.
That's how the process is supposed to work. Making this into some massive
anti-American rant says more about the author than America. This experience
sounds unpleasant, but like it was handled professionally.

I've spent an hour being searched by customs. I don't know why - perhaps
because I was returning from India and hadn't shaved in a month. It was
inconvenient, but also the job of customs. This did not bother me.

I fly domestically and internationally at least 20 times a year. I get caught
up briefly in all sorts of different ways all over the world. It's part of
travel, and it's really not that bad. This is how nations protect their
borders and enforce their laws, because not everyone is a saint like you.

All you idiots saying you won't work in or travel to the US because of the TSA
searches - give me a break. EVERY country in the world I have ever been to has
nearly identical search procedures as the TSA and most countries have
stringent immigration checks. Many asking far more probing questions than
American immigration, including Netherlands, Israel, and Britain. I was nearly
denied entry to Britain because I didn't know the address of a friend who I
was staying with.

Sorry, I'm tired of all this false outrage about minor f-ups with the TSA and
DHS. These organizations have some major policy and procedural problems, but a
few hours one time while immigration officials do their job of making sure you
don't have false documents is not among them. If you don't like it, go
somewhere else where a $20 bribe instead of an objective investigation gets
you admitted - which is most countries in the world.

~~~
nottrobin
When was the last time you had to wait in one crowded room for 3 hours without
being allowed to use your phone, and without a seat?

The last time I was in a situation anywhere close to this was when I
accompanied my girlfriend to get her visa renewed in London. We had to wait
for about 5 hours in a fairly crowded hot room with pretty uncomfortable
seats. But we had each other's company and while there was a sign saying we
weren't allowed to use electronic devices, most people seemed to be ignoring
it, so it wasn't so bad.

But still worse than anything I ever have to experience in my normal travel as
a white British man.

~~~
aneth4
This is not a competition for the worst experience one can have. I've had
plenty of horrible ones. Ever been detained for several days in a crowded
third world jail for no legitimate reason and extorted a large sum of money to
be released? Ever been stabbed by thugs too powerful for the police to do
anything other than write a lie-filled police report? This is what happens
every day in the actual world away from privileged white developers with US
green cards.

This is a privileged person, someone who travels internationally, writes a
blog, was able to get a US green card (something tens of millions aspire to,)
is in one of the most lucrative careers on the planet, and is the founder of a
free enterprise despite being young and (presumably based on his caption) gay.
In the grand scheme of things, this experience doesn't even measure on the
pity scale, and to bitch and moan about such things reveals a major lack
appreciation for what one has and a sad sense of entitlement.

Sorry, no go.

~~~
adekok
> This is a privileged person, someone who travels internationally, ...

... and who has gone through extensive scrutiny to get a green card.

Exactly the kind of person who should hit red flags at the border, right?

~~~
aneth4
What's your point? Nobody is arguing whether this was a mistake, not even DHS
officer when asked. Nobody is saying the DHS is the most competent
organization on the planet or that it can't be better. In the vast majority of
cases, people enter the country without issue and in a tiny minority there is
some inconvenience.

Clearly many of the people in that room were there for a reason, as some was
arrested and some were denied entry.

The guy had to stand in a room for 3 hours before entering the country because
he tripped a false positive. We can hope that this won't happen every time -
if it does, he might have something to complain about, though still not
justification for the exasperation shown in this forum.

------
gadders
I know everyone hates on the US Immigration people, but as a fairly regular
traveller to the US (normally at least twice a year, mixture of business and
pleasure), I've never had a bad experience. The guards I've dealt with have
never been less than professional, and some have gone out of their way to make
smalltalk ("You have nice handwriting" (?), "Your birthday is the same as
mine.") etc.

I even got let back through immigration from baggage control as I had a bad
stomach and really badly needed to use the toilet, No guns were drawn on me.

Of course, it probably helps that I'm white and British, but I thought I would
offer up at least one counterpoint.

------
zobzu
I entered quite a few times under visa so far and my experience has been more
than fine (in fact, it's even been pleasant). Hopefully, it'll never get to
what you've had.

It happened a couple of times that the officer wasn't sure if I was doing what
I said I was, for whatever reason, and they generally just asked a follow up
question like "do you have an access card for this company and can I see it?"
which resolved the matter every time. Didn't realize it was so close to "wait
in the horror room for hours".

~~~
jzwinck
Ironically, it is poor security practice to print names on access cards. But
it is fairly common.

------
_pferreir_
I know what you mean. The bureaucratic establishment allows people in low
ranking public jobs to have a disproportionate amount of power over pretty
much anyone.

9/11 seems to have made things worse for pretty much everyone. Governments
went paranoid and chose the easy way: delegating extra authority on people
that were not prepared to exert it.

But border guards tend to be dumb and/or rude pretty much everywhere, so,
don't take it too seriously.

------
donohoe
This is why I choose citizenship.

I have kids so I cannot risk some guy having a bad day at the border ruining
my life.

------
y1426i
This is not an immigration issue. There is no place for common sense in
government matters. Some day computers will take over the decision making and
we will have a joyous experience coming in or happily avoid this country
because the decision will be known.

------
thawt
I haven't seen anyone say it, but I can tell you that the experience of
entering the US as a US citizen is only marginally better.

Leaving/entering the US is something I avoid at all costs. Sad but true.

------
nottrobin
Thanks so much for sharing this.

I think treatment of immigrants by border controls is shocking, and the
biggest problem is how little attention / voice the problem gets.

Please continue to write about your experiences.

------
rjzzleep
welcome to how germany treats their own citizen

~~~
sourishkrout
BS

------
madaxe
I have a simple solution for not dealing with US immigration's bullshit. Too
many trips marred by days spent in featureless rooms waiting for Godot, a
full-time employee of your border agency.

Anyway - simple solution - don't go to America. Don't work with Americans.

Europe and Asia are big markets.

------
tmktmk
This is the biggest non-problem ever:

1) Did the author get in? Yes

2) Did customs do their job and scrutinize the person's paperwork? Yes

3) Was the person held for an inordinately long time? No -- 3 hours is not a
"long time." If you can't deal with the fact that you just flew (potentially)
halfway across the world in an airplane

4) Was the author unduly molested or given harsh treatment, perhaps by being
denied food, water, medication, or otherwise harassed? No -- the author points
out that there was a water fountain and snack machines, and the author was not
strip searched, nor was he otherwise harassed/degraded. Sitting in a waiting
room while your paperwork clears is "not a big deal."

Please stop blowing things out of proportion, and criticizing the US for no
reason. I've immigrated to and lived in 3 different countries, and BY FAR the
procedure described here is not difficult or tedious. If you can't deal with a
a 3 hour wait, how can you deal with anything? Patience is a virtue.

BTW -- I was a paying awe.sm customer -- I just cancelled my account due to
this overblown blog posting. Enjoy.

