
Amazon Isn’t the Only Shop Online - prostoalex
https://www.wsj.com/articles/shipping-delays-out-of-stock-items-amazon-isnt-the-only-shop-online-11586165400
======
ebg13
I tried ordering some things from Home Depot the other day, and they silently
cancelled half of my order while still charging me the same amount for
delivery from the store and while saying that some things can only be
delivered from a warehouse and that some things can only be delivered from a
specific store _and_ that delivery from each store has a $45 minimum purchase
before they'll even consider delivery despite the fact that they're charging
the same amount for delivery from the store no matter how much you order. That
of course makes it difficult to then order the remaining items even if you
call them and demand a refund for the first delivery fee, because the
remaining items now don't meet the minimum. Then the delivery from the
warehouse is some weird arbitrary calculation involving a nominal+ amount that
then gets divided up across the items you're ordering (3.77 here, 2.83 there,
and so on) such that if you remove any item the delivery fees for the other
items all go up, and then there are some items that deliver for free if you
order more than $45 worth _from the warehouse_ which of course doesn't help
you if some items can only be purchased from the individual stores. And then
there are still things like cans of spraypaint that you can't get delivered at
all and you're only allowed to pick up in person.

I know that right now is an exceptional time, but this kind of shopping
experience is part of why people choose Amazon first.

~~~
jakearmitage
HomeDepot's ecommerce is a joke. Not only the shopping experience is poor,
they treat logistics as if they were doing you a favor. And, on top of all
that, you get damaged items. I made 7 purchases and all 7, in different
periods of time, had to be returned or replaced.

Same for Lowe's. There's a reason people shop on Amazon. Other than BestBuy,
no other retailer "gets" ecommerce.

~~~
mauvehaus
I beg to differ. Rock Auto is where it's at for auto parts. The website is
ugly as hammered shit, but it's fast, shows you the options grouped by rough
quality level (economy/you cheapskate, daily driver, performance, etc), shows
you what part to select so it _ships from the same warehouse_ as the parts
already in your cart and saves you shipping, and returns are painless
(disclaimer: I've only ever done returns for core exchanges). I have never had
a better online purchasing experience.

And the prices are a fraction of what you pay at a brick and mortar place.
Especially for e.g. wiper blades.

Companies that "get" e-commerce are out there, but a lot of them are quietly
and competently doing their thing in unsexy domains and aren't trying to eat
the whole pie.

Rock Auto, for instance, isn't trying to serve every idiot on the planet with
a car. If you can't keep your lefts/rights and fronts/backs straight when
ordering e.g. brake hoses, you're going to find it a frustrating experience.
Putting up a (small) barrier to entry to keep out the least clueful people
probably helps keep their costs down.

Not affiliated, just a very happy repeat customer.

~~~
dan_quixote
My nomination is McMaster-Carr (mcmaster.com) - They have a huge catalog of
parts/tools yet somehow it's so intuitive to browse. I was a mechanical
engineer in a previous life and McMaster's website was my bible. Step one for
any new prototype design was to browse this site. Best case scenario, you
could cobble together your prototype from various COTS (commercial off the
shelf) McMaster parts. And if that wasn't an option, scan the catalog for
necessary parts and raw materials. If they don't exist at McMaster, your
design idea just got at least 10X expensive and lead time doubled.

~~~
sambroner
I was always shocked by McMaster-Carr's delivery speed. I felt like the parts
would arrive as quickly as I could have conceivably picked them up.

This was 10 years ago now, so sort of like Amazon Prime before it became
ubiquitous, but for materials and tools. However McMaster was and remains much
better organized and much better spec-ed.

~~~
frandroid
That's because they already have to delivery that fast for car repair shops.
Fast delivery has never been an extra for them, it's always been the core
product.

What's interesting is that considering the existing logistics, none of these
guys though of expanding into other ecommerce earlier. One of them could have
been Amazon...

~~~
dan_quixote
I'm glad they didn't to be honest. It would have diluted their existing
product.

------
larrik
Right when this all was starting, I had finally chosen a bass guitar I wanted.
I decided to try and support a non-Amazon business in GuitarCenter (the local
music shops focus a lot more on school band instruments). So, I order online,
and pick the "pick up at store" option, since it says they are in stock.

I show up, and an hour later they figure out that they don't have it in stock,
they only have the floor model (which I can have for a whopping 5% off...).
Apparently, the system (a green screen app, no less) can't tell the difference
between "new in stock" and "floor model". I got the rundown of their logistics
chain (which is basically just UPS), and I lost confidence that even ordering
ship-to-home online again would even work. So, I bought it from Amazon for the
same price and got it later that week...

~~~
selykg
Check out Sweetwater next time. They are significantly better. Their site
actually shows you each guitar/bass they have in stock and they have an entire
gallery Of photos for each. If you order one they’ll send a zip or the whole
collection of photos.

If you call and talk to the sales rep for you (you’re assigned one) they can
usually knock 5-15% off.

They also make sure each guitar/bass is setup to factory spec before sending
it out.

~~~
larrik
Never really heard of them before. Looks like everything I bought is out of
stock anyway, but it's good to know there are alternatives.

~~~
selykg
I imagine a lot of gear is tough to get unless it’s high end stuff right now.
There has been a ton of people picking up instruments during the shelter in
place orders.

Sweetwater is significantly better than GuitarCenter though. Better customer
support, better site, better warranty, better everything.

~~~
dionian
ordered a single speaker once and they contacted me to make sure i didnt want
two, which i actually did... really next level customer service

------
Wistar
Although the focus is somewhat narrower than amazon, for my professional needs
I have had nothing but an excellent online experience with bhphotovideo. I
have ordered hundreds of items worth tens of thousands of dollars from them
starting about 2007. Their site can be a little frustrating, mostly from not
narrow-enough categorization, but their app for iOS is very good. Their prices
are usually as good and often better than amazon. The users' product reviews
are useful and well-written and the site/app shows which reviewers are
verified purchasers of the product they are reviewing and offers comprehensive
review filtering.

They also invest a lot of effort in producing their own product demo videos
and articles done by obviously knowledgeable people which, given the breadth
of their catalog, is particularly impressive and serves well more than just to
shill their wares.

They have great packaging for shipping and I have not once had an order go
missing or show up broken or damaged despite many of my orders being fragile
items.

Well-oiled machine.

~~~
alyx
Tried placing an order online Saturday afternoon, only to be informed that the
website was not taking orders due to Shabbos.

I very nearly skipped over to Adorama.

The mind boggles trying to resolve why a server cannot accept an order while
staff is respecting Shabbos.

~~~
schwartzworld
B&H is run and staffed by Hasidic Jews. They have strict definitions of work
that are forbidden on the Sabbath and they may not always be intuitive to
outsiders, for example, for many religious Jews, pressing the elevator button
is forbidden, but riding in an elevator that is programmed to just stop on
every floor is fine.

Your mind is free to boggle, but Jews are entitled to close their businesses
on the Sabbath just the same as Christians. In the county I grew up in,
everything but supermarkets is closed on Sunday, for example.

------
Diederich
Help requested.

My wife, who is in her 50s, is immunocompromised, and she also has a history
of fast escalating and difficult to treat respiratory problems. We are and
have been (for the past 32 days) treating this bug very carefully. If she
catches it, she has a very good chance of not surviving it.

Our son and I are at less risk, but we can easily bring this bug home.

We've been having more and more trouble getting food. We have a fair quantity
of emergency supplies, but we'd rather not tap into those.

At first it was the various delivery options: instacart, various others, but
they became less usable. Early last week we started doing Amazon Prime Now,
which allowed us to place and pay for orders at Whole Foods, then wait in the
parking lot for them to put the orders in our trunk.

Over the past few days, this has gotten less viable. We'd find ourselves
driving 50 miles to pickup a $30 order.

So, we're open to suggestions. We live in Mountain View, the SF Bay Area.

We have been able to buy quite a bit of chicken and beef, and we have a 50
pound bag of flour coming in, so we're certainly not in any danger of
starvation.

It's just kind of a low-grade anxiety that kind of sucks.

Thanks!

PS: We have a pretty rigorous decontamination process that everything goes
through before it comes into the house, so we feel pretty good about that.

~~~
gwittel
I am in MV.

Unfortunately most online things are overwhelmed. They don't have enough
shoppers. You can keep checking for a slot opening up, but its a challenge and
hard to plan for. Are you specifically looking for fresh items, or are there
particular things you need?

Staples are usually available, and you can sometimes get them from smaller
vendors online. At least those you can plan ahead for a future delivery. For
some staples I've had luck with Target and random online (usually
specialty/gourmet) sellers.

For fresh items, its harder -- either get lucky with online or go =/. You can
try the smaller chains as they are lower foot traffic or in some cases are
better at rate limiting customers. I've had luck with Ava's downtown (they
also have early hours for senior and/or immunocompromised). Nijiya is rate
limiting, as is Trader Joes (expect 30+ min line though). Nob Hill has been
OK, they also have special pre-packaged boxes for seniors and at risk
customers. They are first come/first serve, and have mixes of staples/fresh
foods. They say they're available via e-cart as well, but I haven't tried.
I've had to book Nob Hill ~1 week ahead (and didn't get everything). Dittmer's
is also rate limiting (but sounds like you're good on meats).

As a last resort -- the MV farmer's market opens an early for seniors and
immunocompromised (so either 8 or 8:30, I can't remember and its not listed
online). I've been ~9 and its busier than I'd like. They're trying to enforce
line spacing and do limit number of people in booths. Some booths only sell
pre-bagged items held behind the counter (e.g. apples from Rainbow).

As a last resort -- maybe a shared grocery need list with friends/neighbors?
Someone can pick up an extra item or two when they're out. We've been doing
that at times and following usual safety procedures afterward.

Take care!

~~~
dehrmann
> early hours for senior and/or immunocompromised

I get why stores would do this, but unless there are significantly fewer
people in the store, could putting these people in one place actually be a bad
idea? Is there any good data backing this up?

~~~
Diederich
I agree with your concerns; I haven't seen any data about this.

------
jedberg
Yeah I’ve ordered a few things now directly from the manufacturer.

The problem is in a lot of cases I’ll see stuff that’s slightly cheaper on
their site but then shipping is ridiculous.

I ordered a mono price stand up desk recently. The price on Amazon was $10
more, but Monoprice wanted $45 for domestic shipping! So I waited three extra
days and saved $35.

It’s kind of a toss up now between speed and price depending on the item. I
mean, it always was, but when prime is functioning normally, the speed is
almost always worth the price (to me).

~~~
bluetidepro
I agree 100% with this. It's appalling how many other sites (esp. the direct
manufacturer ones, like you mentioned) use dark patterns with their
shipping/handling prices. It really does make you understand why everyone
wants to use the big sites like Amazon, at least they are pretty straight fwd
when it comes to the price, shipping, fees, etc. Nothing worse than getting
down an e-commerce funnel only to find you wasted 10+ mins filling out stages
of forms to then find the shipping/handling cost is absolutely ridiculous, and
have to bail.

~~~
dangrossman
It's not a dark pattern that shipping actually costs everyone that isn't
Amazon a lot. Go get a shipping quote from UPS or FedEx for sending a desk
across the country. It's not going to be any cheaper than these stores are
charging. They're not hiding extra profit in their shipping fees.

People are so used to Amazon Prime that they have no idea what things cost to
ship any more. I run a small online store and every 1-pound package I mail out
costs $8-12 in postage by the cheapest shipping method available to me, at
commercial shipping rates. If the box is over a cubic foot in size and going
to a state on the other side of the country, it can quickly double or triple
in cost.

Amazon has $120/year in Prime subscription fees to subsidize the displayed
shipping costs, puts some of the shipping fee into the item price (they're
rarely the cheapest for most products, especially very cheap or very heavy
ones), has a warehouse within 20 miles of every American so that nearly
everything they ship is a same-zone local shipment, and has their own delivery
network so they don't have to pay carriers. No other business has those
things.

~~~
plorkyeran
Honest sites let you enter a zip code at the very start of the shopping
process and display an estimated shipping cost as you're looking at items.
Dishonest sites make no mention of shipping costs until you're at the very end
of the checkout process.

~~~
odysseus
I think in many cases it's not a matter of dishonesty, but of laziness, lack
of care, or not wanting to pay for a better checkout experience.

~~~
t-writescode
Also, there’s probably A/B testing that shows orders of magnitude less
engagement if you put any blockers in the way of seeing the product.

~~~
plorkyeran
It doesn't have to block you from seeing the product. Some e-commerce sites
let you enter a zip code on any page to get estimated shipping prices, but
don't require you to. Some let you enter a zip code as soon as you've added
something to your cart. Some don't do estimated shipping prices at all and
don't give you any idea how much shipping will be until you're at that step of
the checkout flow.

~~~
t-writescode
Fair enough. I suppose I'm just used to what I'm used to. Shipping prices only
seem to be something surprising nowadays with Amazon. Before that, it was
accepted and commonplace. I wonder if that makes it a dark pattern now.

------
double0jimb0
Amazon has massive network of 3rd Party Sellers who ship items directly from
their own warehouses, not relying on Amazon’s currently-hobbled fulfillment
centers

You can find these by selecting “other sellers” on the Amazon product page.

This has been the way to get stuff quickly on Amazon for the last 3 weeks.

Then on Friday, with no warning or explanation, Amazon extended all shipping
times quoted out to April 20th, including the shipping times provided by 3rd
party sellers.

This extension has no basis in reality, as 3rd party sellers have not
experienced any shipping delays because they don’t use Amazon’s warehouses.

This was a hugely anti-competitive move by Amazon that has severely impacted
3rd party sellers and directly misleads consumers.

Numerous 3rd party sellers have reported this situation to the DOJ.

If any reporters want more info, please reach out. Email in profile.

~~~
CPLX
For what it's worth, the solution is just to order whatever you want anyways,
and watch it ship to you 2-3 days later.

~~~
double0jimb0
Well of course, but most people go by what they read on the screen in front of
them at the time of purchase.

------
LatteLazy
>Amazon Isn’t the Only Shop Online

They sort of are at the moment, at least here in greater London...

My normal groceries company have cancelled online orders silently and will not
deliver anything. They can't even update their websites with new opening
times.

The local DIY (B&Q) store are taking order for essential items only (loft
ladders and plants are essential, but not light bulbs or fuses wtf?)

Amazon randomly added a month to all their delivery _estimates_ but everything
is still coming in a few days and I can get whatever I want.

To be honest, it makes sense to manage infrastructure of supply centrally.
That's the genius of amazon, not retail but supply. While other companies can
barely ring up items, Amazon connects buyers to sellers before either know the
trade will happen.

~~~
thewebcount
Instacart in Los Angeles did this to me. I ordered groceries and the local
store uses Instacart to deliver them. When they didn't show up, I had to call
Instacart to find out they had canceled my order. They were just not going to
tell me, apparently.

~~~
LatteLazy
I can understand that places have problems with volume of orders or items not
being in stock. But it should be really hard to cancel a client order and NOT
tell them. How is it they don't have something that emails you when your order
is killed already and automatically!?

------
nataz
Amazon shipping hack - order what you want to order, wait 48 hours to see if
it ships, and if it doesn't cancel and order elsewhere.

This assumes you value ordering through Amazon (I do b/c prime shipping, easy
return policy, and I have a large gift card balance)

One thing I've noticed is that amazon may list a delivery date far out in the
future, but it's possible you still get the product quickly, depending on what
I can only assume are local warehouse logistic issues.

Over the past two weeks I've ordered packing/shipping supplies, a high chair,
some electronics, and a board game which all had expected delivery dates of +1
month, and they all arrived in 2 days.

YMMV.

~~~
ehsankia
I really wish they could provide more clarity. I haven't tried ordering things
that list as May, but browsing items, I randomly see individual items that for
some reason have much closer dates. I even saw one with 1-day shipping. It
makes no sense to me. I wish they could give a slightly better window
prediction than "this may take a month"...

~~~
greenshackle2
They are shipping "priority items" quickly. Who knows how they determine what
are "priority items".

When I ordered hygiene items (shampoo, soap, etc.) they shipped the next day.
But my order of kitchen equipment has expected delivery in May (which I'm
totally fine with).

~~~
odysseus
This is going to be great, because the last time I ordered soap (in mid
February, before most of the lockdowns started), it took Amazon 10 days to get
it to me, even with Prime. Looking forward to seeing this improved on my next
soap delivery ...

------
bluGill
I always search for alternative sellers. They are more likely to have someone
who knows the product. A plumbing supplier will know something about pipes and
I have some reason to trust them when they give advantages to their different
price levels. I don't need 200 different brands of 1/2 inch pipe connections,
I need the 3 different levels of pressure they are rated for, and the choice
of material they are made from. They also tend to provide reasonable sorting
so that I can find what I need without scrolling for ages.

------
sneak
A lot of the things I used to buy on Amazon I buy on eBay instead using “buy
it now”. Even free shipping items are frequently less than Amazon.

I’ve already phased out AWS, I hope to stop using amazon.com by the end of the
year. I don’t like doing business with military contractors.

~~~
bdcravens
I assume you use Linux for your operating system then? Both Apple and
Microsoft do business with the military.

~~~
sneak
My personal morals find a difference between “we sell physical goods and
anyone can buy them without restriction” and “we will build you a whole set of
dedicated custom data centers with racist hiring policies”.

[https://aws.amazon.com/govcloud-us/](https://aws.amazon.com/govcloud-us/)

Also, Apple doesn’t sell OSes. One could buy secondhand Macs.

Linux is used by the military, too. The issue is not “not matching”, it is a
question of providing financial support to those who deliberately assist in
the undertaking of violence.

Selling (or giving away) your goods to all comers isn’t that. Custom services
and consulting absolutely is.

There’s also that whole Apple tapping-iCloud-in-China-for-the-CCP thing. I
don’t think I’ll be on iOS much longer, especially now that Signal is fully
cross-platform and runs on iPad. I’ve already deprecated iMessage amongst
everyone I talk to in anticipation of the switch. Hell, I’ve even been on
broadcast radio talking about how iCloud will leak your private data.

I think it’s a mistake to view the attitude of Apple toward military
contracting (not just sales) as the same as that of Microsoft or Amazon. If
when Apple employs hundreds of people who are full-time embedded in the
military to help them use their products, maybe that situation will change.

To your point, I have moved off of GitHub, and have encouraged others to do
the same:

[https://sneak.berlin/20200307/the-case-against-microsoft-
and...](https://sneak.berlin/20200307/the-case-against-microsoft-and-github/)

We can all take small steps to improve our choices each day. Over time and
across people, these things add up.

The worst thing we could do is assume that every choice is the same and
carries the same negative consequences and act uncritically. In that vein, I
appreciate your pushback: critical thinking about our choices should be the
one constant. There is always a place we can improve.

~~~
bdcravens
Apple has engaged in active development, not just passive sales

[https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-defense-
tech/pentagon...](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-defense-
tech/pentagon-teams-up-with-apple-boeing-to-develop-wearable-tech-
idUSKCN0QX12D20150828)

~~~
sneak
> _MOUNTAIN VIEW, Calif. (Reuters) - U.S. Defense Secretary Ash Carter awarded
> $75 million on Friday to help a consortium of high-tech firms and
> researchers develop electronic systems packed with sensors flexible enough
> to be worn by soldiers or molded onto the skin of a plane._

> _Carter said funding for the Obama administration’s newest manufacturing
> institute would go to the FlexTech Alliance, a consortium of 162 companies,
> universities and other groups, from Boeing (BA.N), Apple (AAPL.O) and
> Harvard, to Advantest Akron Polymer Systems and Kalamazoo Valley Community
> College._

> _The group will work to advance the development and manufacture of so-called
> flexible hybrid electronics, which can be embedded with sensors and
> stretched, twisted and bent to fit aircraft or other platform where they
> will be used._

A $75 million research grant into a consortium of 162 companies (of which
Apple is a member) to develop flexible wearable tech is not remotely what I am
talking about in this thread.

------
rsync
Mcmaster-carr is fantastic:

[https://www.mcmaster.com/](https://www.mcmaster.com/)

Very simple UI with access to technical diagrams. Good pricing. If I order
before noon or 2pm or something, here in the bay area I receive the items next
day.

I wish all web stores could be like this.

~~~
ncheek
McMaster has a powerfully simple website. You can get to any item with
mcmaster.com/<part number>. They often provide 3D models of their parts. You
can even paste in a list of items to quickly bulk-add to your cart. It just
works.

Their customer service is also second to none. I've never had the phone ring
more than once before being answered by a real person. And they'll respond
24/7 to phone calls or emails. Oh, and they've accepted returns a year after I
bought something, no questions asked.

In the Atlanta area they usually deliver same-day via courier, or you can
drive over to their warehouse for will call.

McMaster can often be more expensive than other distributors, especially for
things like metal stock (I recommend price-comparing with onlinemetals.com or
midweststeelsupply.com but be careful about Midwest Steel's processing times).
But you're paying for the service and ease of use.

Probably the biggest problem I have with McMaster is their lack of insight
into shipping cost. They don't give you even an estimate of the shipping
before you check out, it just gets added once they ship. I will say their
shipping prices have always been fair but it can be scary to buy something not
knowing what it will cost.

~~~
spacemark
I've probably put in 100 McMaster orders over the last year via work, side
gig, and home projects. My take on this is that their prime customers
(businesses) do not put shipping costs in their top 5 or maybe even top 10
priorities. Businesses pushing out products or engaged in rapid prototyping or
meeting a deadline are much more concerned with speed, and McMaster __always
__beats Amazon in shipping time to my workplace (usually less than 24 hours
from order to delivery, no joke). Their customer also values accurate
technical data so they 've put a lot of effort into CAD models and are very
responsive to customer service calls.

In short, they know their customer persona. I wouldn't hold my breath that
they'll add upfront shipping costs any time soon!

~~~
daniel_reetz
This exactly matches my experience. I run a prototyping shop in the LA area. I
get items the very same day from McMaster. That kind of feedback loop is
priceless. They ship with DGC for most deliveries, and DGC is usually cost-
competitive with any other service.

------
yeutterg
Amazon third-party seller here. If a Prime product is showing a long delivery
time, try to look for non-Prime offers. You want to find offers that say
"Ships from and sold by X," where X is NOT Amazon. The reason being, these
sellers have their own fulfillment and may be able to beat Amazon's speed by a
wide margin.

We now offer this for our product, and I know a lot of other sellers are doing
the same. We used to only have a Prime (Fulfilled by Amazon) offer, but this
crisis caused us to adapt as customers were getting 1-month delivery
estimates.

We enabled "Fulfilled by Merchant" offers on our account, and I sent some
inventory to my apartment (and ordered lots of shipping boxes). Within a
couple days, the self-fulfilled option got the "buy box" on Amazon, so now
most people viewing our listing will see a delivery estimate of about one
week. It doesn't have the "Prime" badge, but we get a decent number of orders
through this, enough to survive.

We send out all orders with First Class Mail, and I pack them up around 3PM
each business day in order to get them to the post office by the 5PM cutoff.
It appears most customers are receiving orders between 2 and 5 days after
ordering (including the opposite coast). This is even faster than the time
estimate customers see on Amazon, and way faster than Prime.

Disclaimer: your mileage may vary.

------
CodeSheikh
Amazon's (+Wholefood) supply-chain failure is an eye-opener for me during
COVID-19 crisis. I hate to acknowledge my dependability on Amazon Prime while
living in a big city. I am not sure how I will break my habit but I know for a
fact that I won't be ordering everything from Amazon Prime in the future.

For a company that commands e-commerce space in year 2020, it is really
frustrating to find this workflow while ordering from WF while using Amazon's
app, it is a joke and UI/UX 101 blunder. You add items to your cart. They run
out of inventory. Items disappear from your cart. Either you place your order
assuming all items were in your cart or you don't get a delivery slot and you
have to add those items again. Why can't they just borrow the same feature
from Amazon.com where unavailable items move conveniently to "Save later"
section?

------
alias_neo
This is an important thing to remember. Just last night, I was ordering an
item on Amazon, and pointed out to my wife that it is gonna take a week to
delivery on prime.

That's fine, there's more important things going on in the world. But she
said; "Why does it have to be from Amazon? If you're not getting it Prime
speed, why not buy it elsewhere?"

So I went to the manufacturers website and bought it directly, and it was 15%
cheaper than Amazon, and will supposedly arrive a little faster.

I think I may try do this more. I already do this, where possible to support
small businesses.

------
Animats
Amazon is holding up much better than other online retailers. Ordering works
fine. My Amazon orders are showing up, although slowly. Safeway and Smart and
Final can't even give me a delivery slot. Smart and Final's web site was
failing over the weekend - Cloudflare timeouts, login timeouts, false credit
card declines, HTTP error 461 (there is no standard 461 error.), and a "Site
undergoing maintenance" message from their "DevOps Team". Back up now, though.

------
thebean11
The estimates on Amazon right now seem way longer than the reality. I'm
getting all my packages in 2-3 days despite Amazon estimating a week or more.

~~~
irrational
Not me. Amazon is estimating 2-3 weeks on most things now, and so far are
sticking by their estimates.

~~~
eshyong
I'm guessing a lot of this is location dependent, and based on warehouse-
proximity.

~~~
bradlys
It's also based on the items you're ordering. Some stuff we've ordered arrives
within a few days or less. Other items that I've ordered (tools) has taken
about 3 weeks to arrive. Some items keep getting pushed back. I would cancel
and buy elsewhere but I'd pay a lot in shipping since these aren't all items I
can buy from one place online.

I have shopped online for other items though. I bought some insoles for really
cheap from a UK based bicycle store, the items got here in less than a week...
all the way from the UK! It's not like all shipping is broken down - just
Amazon.

~~~
xkjkls
Yeah, Amazon has stopped issuing purchase orders for a huge number of non-
essentials, which probably contributes to really high delivery estimates. If
anything is out of stock at their warehouse, they have no idea when they might
have room to restock.

------
buzzert
If anyone is looking for computer parts, I gotta shoutout Newegg. Been using
them for more than 15 years, and they’ve been extremely great at delivering
during the pandemic.

~~~
ShamelessC
With all the social distancing going on and my general laziness towards
staying active without being forced to, paired with the massive hype
surrounding Half-Life: Alyx, I decided to build a VR ready computer.

Newegg was fine. I'd been using them since my first build 15 years ago. But
this time I also had access to the amazing website pcpartpicker.com. Not only
do they make it easy to find parts that are all compatible with each other,
but you'll also be given multiple shopping options with discounts.

Most of it I got from Newegg but I was able to save about 75$ by getting the
PSU and MoBo from bhphotovideo.com which was a surprisingly good experience.

BTW, HL Alyx is as amazing as they say and you really don't have to spend a
fortune to play it. My entire build was only 650$ and my VR headset of choice
(Samsung Odyssey) only 270$. I was worried I'd made a mistake by going with a
cheap headset but it works very well.

------
benbristow
I usually prefer to use Amazon just because the experience is so simple and in
the UK their logistics delivery service is pretty good with live tracking when
the parcel gets near to your home.

Amazon can be annoying when using third party sellers though and might end up
getting dispatched with an alternative delivery service, god forbid Royal Mail
who don't have any live tracking feature.

I'm always happy to help out smaller/alternative businesses though if they
offer competitive prices and use decent delivery firms like DPD.

------
daniel_reetz
I really felt this. Seeing things go out-of-stock or become unavailable for
months was a strong reminder of how things used to be online - when I
purchased different types of items from different independent web retailers. I
went searching for many of them, most are gone.

Does anyone remember Pricewatch? Old school computer parts sellers like
CompGeeks? Those were really interesting times.

------
jdlyga
Well then give us a list! Nearly everything else I've checked is either out of
stock or doesn't deliver to my house.

~~~
gambler
Most chain stores and even some local stores have online storefront and still
ship items. It's a good time to support them. You don't want to live in the
world where Amazon is the only game left in town.

Also, Ebay.

------
loser777
I’ve observed this with big and small business alike:

\+ bought a baking steel direct from the seller (shipping time ~5 days vs. 1
month+, so I canceled the amazon order)

\+ monitor out of stock for over a week on amazon (in stock at bnh, shipping
time ~4 days)

\+ monitor arm I didn’t even bother looking at on amazon (shipping time direct
from seller ~2 days)

~~~
chrisweekly
bnh?

~~~
Arcsech
[https://www.bhphotovideo.com/](https://www.bhphotovideo.com/) presumably.
I've ordered some things from there, and generally had a good experience, with
a few notes:

\- For large purchases at least, they are very scrupulous about sending tax
documents to your home state to make sure the sales tax gets paid. This is
probably a social good overall, but unusual for internet retailers and may
take some folks by surprise.

\- They follow a Jewish holiday schedule, including the Sabbath, and do not
take orders on the Sabbath (in New York's time zone, at least). Again, not a
negative, but unusual for modern businesses, especially online ones.

~~~
ghaff
Last time I ordered from them, I think they collected the sales tax. I'm not
sure when this started; I am a long-time customer but they're not a store I
tend to purchase from frequently.

I like them overall and I tend to prefer using them to Amazon for AV type of
purchases.

~~~
hsitz
Doesn't just about everywhere collect sales tax online now?

BHPhotoVideo is my go-to place for tech and music stuff. I got their
affiliated payboo credit card that pays the sales tax for you, saves me that
10% on every order.

------
vernie
I've been using eBay lately. Sellers have been consistently delivering in 2
days and it feels just as likely that I'll get fake shit as from Amazon these
days.

~~~
dawnerd
I sell on eBay and it's pretty easy to beat Amazon. Most first class and
priority packages arrive in under 3 days depending on your location to an
airport. I'm right next to PDX and almost all of my packages go through there
and end up on the other side of the US overnight. Those packages typically
take two days. Also helps I ship same day so they're on a flight that night or
the next morning.

As for the fakes, they certainly exist on eBay but it's a lot easier to spot.
If an item doesn't have good pictures, that's a huge red flag. I personally
stay away from sellers that just use stock images. I want to know exactly what
I'm getting.

~~~
kube-system
I avoid shady listings when I really need the item, but if I'm looking for a
deal, I've never had an issue leaning on eBay's buyer protection. I've gotten
all of my best deals from poorly-listed items.

------
manigandham
[http://archive.is/k3zNE](http://archive.is/k3zNE)

------
Waterluvian
My wife orders from walmart.ca often. It's generally good but still feels
lower quality than Amazon (which has its own issues, yes). Last week they
shipped an entirely wrong item. So my kids aren't getting their Duplo set for
Easter.

------
salvagedcircuit
Ironically, I find that I am ordering more from Mcmastercarr and digikey more
than ever.

------
StillBored
Yah, the only thing that's been arriving from Amazon lately are the things
sold and shipped by 3rd party sellers. Frankly, i've been paying the extra to
just order from the smaller shops lately because amazon's critical
"prioritization" algorithm doesn't seem to know what is actually critical.

Part to fix my cloths washing machine? 3 weeks from Amazon, two days from
Granger.

Problem solved, plus unlike a similar part I ordered a couple months ago from
amazon, I'm pretty sure the granger parts aren't counterfeit. The box stamped
"Made in U.S.A" is likely legitimate.

~~~
gniv
Did you mean grainger.com ?

~~~
StillBored
Yes, I managed to type it incorrectly twice, and noticed it after the edit
button expired.

------
gtm1260
Its so unfair to expect consumers to go through hell on these random websites
with poor UI/UX, customer service, logistics, and inventory monitoring
systems. I don't think amazon should be able to crush small businesses etc,
but I don't think appealing to people's sense of personal responsibility is
the answer.

There needs to be a viable way for other businesses to compete with amazon's
level of service if they want consumers to change their habits.

~~~
Kalium
The logistics, inventory management, and customer service operations at the
scale of Amazon are something that become possible with truly immense scale.
They're crushingly expensive at small scale - call center, warehouses, pre-
positioning goods, etc.

There are definitely ways to outsource any or all of these things, but at a
cost in quality. I know I've often had unpleasant experiences with outsourced
customer support call centers. Tools like Square or Shopify help, but only to
a point.

So I think my conclusion might be different from yours - small, local
businesses need a viable way to compete with Amazon in ways where Amazon
_doesn 't_ have a vast advantage.

~~~
gtm1260
Ah totally! I agree with your conclusion. I guess with the measures in place
right now to fight COVID, the areas where Amazon might not have a vast
advantage like niche selection, deep knowledge in a certain product area,
being able to buy something in store immediatley etc. didn't occur to me.

------
wiredone
Amazon’s value isn’t in the fact it’s a store with great shipping. It’s the
trust component. Returns are simple, shipping and stock management is a non
event and they have basically everything. Every other online shopping
experience I’ve had has been hit and miss. Get the simple things right And
sure I’ll try it. But no one has just look at these comments.

------
complianceowl
The HN is a very intelligent community, so I'd like to hear your thoughts out
loud here. Do you guys think supply chains will move closer to home because of
this pandemic? I'm hearing every narrative under the sun right now: "This will
establish globalism even more", "No! This marks the abrupt END of globalism."
What are your thoughts?

~~~
twblalock
Supply chains need to be more resilient, and that probably means making them
more global rather than less.

A pandemic could originate in any country. Making things "at home" would turn
out to be a bad idea if the pandemic originates at home. If that happened we
would like to be able to get help from other countries.

~~~
jshevek
De-globalization, in this case, brings redundancy. This is less efficient, but
more fault tolerant.

Striving for domestic manufacturing does not prevent imports from occurring if
deemed necessary. Tariffs are easy to wave, in an emergency.

------
awaythrower
Also beware of phony Magento sites that don't have actual products, but are
just trying to get CCs, PayPal or crypto payments.

~~~
prox
How does that work? I’ve seen a lot of copy paste webshops of formerly retired
domains. They obviously look quickly hacked together (allthough looking
professional enough to the untrained eye)

~~~
awaythrower
I would bet scraping from Amazon, reducing prices randomly from 20-50%, and
being sure search engines and aggregators see it, i.e., Google/Google
Shopping.

------
A4ET8a8uTh0
Last week experience. I tried gettin display port to hdmi for my docking
station for work on Amazon. It was in Amazon basics category. Solid shopping
experience, but it was not sent for 3 days so I cancelled. Annoying, but
cancellation experience was great. I decided to do pick up from BestBuy.
Great. Store near me has one in store. I purchase at 5PM. At 6PM ( when they
close ), they send me an email saying they don't have it in store anymore.
Great, but I can't cancel w/o creating account. Can't reach live person,
because, ironically, Covid19. Screw it. I bought on CC. I can dispute it
later. I go to Newegg. No issues. stuff gets here in 3 days.

Amazon isn't the only store and its convenience is waning during this
outbreak. They are lucky they are doing so many things right compared to
competition.

Personally, I am debating dropping Prime, which I had for one main reason:fast
free shipping.

------
tanyatik
Is it even ethical to shop on Amazon for non-essentials these days? There are
big concerns amid worker safety.

[https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/technology/coronavirus-
am...](https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/05/technology/coronavirus-amazon-
workers.html)

~~~
xkjkls
I'm not sure these concerns are unique to any other business with a warehouse,
however.

------
nkkollaw
Sure, Amazon might not be the only one, but every time I tried to buy
somewhere else, something happened.

They charged me twice, charged me to never sent me the product and forcing me
to waste 2 weeks, sent to the wrong address, etc.

Amazon seems to be the only one that can actually do their job properly
without hassles.

------
Someone1234
One reason previously for using Amazon was recommendations for example their
"Customers who viewed this item also viewed: [list of alternative items]."
Unfortunately the recommendations boxes like the "Customers who viewed this
item also viewed" have been completely removed, with no real replacement
except "sponsored."

I don't consider sponsored ads a replacement for actual recommendations based
on real people's buying behavior. Obviously Amazon wants us to though so they
can double-dip. Personally I am buying less, not more, because I cannot find
things.

But maybe it is more profitable to Amazon for us to spend longer looking, more
sponsor spot revenue. Talk about perverse incentives, make more money from a
slower shopping experience.

------
ehnto
As a developer with most of my experience in boutique and enterprise
eCommerce, I am surprised this is a conversation piece! There are plenty of
large and small online retailers who are doing just fine. If you think Amazon
has everything you are definitely mistaken, but for many it's probably enough
of everything.

I encourage everyone to buy directly from manufacturers and local businesses
where possible, especially if you are not from the US. We feel like we want an
Amazon dominant market, but the effects it has on what products exist and what
businesses thrive is somewhat insidious and unseen.

------
bombledmonk
I just bought something from Best Buy online when Amazon said the same item
was in stock, but would not arrive until April 27th. BB said it be here
Thursday, though is usually a day early because of proximity to the warehouse.

------
arbuge
I'm having increasingly bad experiences on Amazon. The most obvious ones are
common problems - the reviews can't be trusted, and they're no longer price
leaders in many cases. But there are some new experiences I'm running into
now.

Today, for the first time ever, I was double-charged for the same order.
Customer support claims I was only charged once and there's no way to upload
them a screenshot of my card statement so that they can see what I'm seeing.
To be clear, these are two real charges (not pending charges or temporary
authorizations) for the same order.

------
beamatronic
Reading this entire thread, something became very clear to me: there is STILL
a lot of room for improvement to be made for online e-commerce. Someone should
invent a local-first inventory-first Amazon

~~~
sneak
Like a local delivery-only costco, perhaps?

------
tmaly
Amazon was sold out of bakers yeast as were the local grocery stores. I was
able to order from a specialty place. The order was delivered 2 days later.
The price was very reasonable.

For certain things, I am seeing some serious prices. People are selling cotton
masks 4 for $25. That seems a little steep given that a box of N95 masks went
for $6 before this.

I just ordered parts for building a new computer. I had to order from 4
different places as Amazon did not have half of the items in stock. There are
definitely some supply chain issues.

------
rchaud
Best Buy's ecommerce site is great; they don't have the absurd levels of info
overload and upselling of a typical Amazon page.

In Canada, Amazon's electronics offerings are rife with awful Chinese brands
sold by dropshippers. Amazon seemingly doesn't carry any of the inventory
themselves unless it's a Fire tablet or Echo.

It's actually a big relief to shop online via at a proper outlet (even
Walmart.ca is more reliable) than through the Bezos flea market.

------
ww520
Is it possible to ask for price reduction or refund on the Prime membership
due to the long delivery time? The point of Prime is mostly moot without the
speedy delivery.

~~~
dawnerd
I cancelled my prime for the time being and it automatically refunded the
12.99

------
yCloser
EU here, things seem pretty good here.

* I ordered 20kg of oranges from sicily, no shipping costs, arrived in 2days

* Coffee, same thing

* a bass guitar, same

* groceries are delivered in a day from local shops

* for electronics i bought from many shops, usually takes ~1week. still OK for a washing machine or those big items

...seems that "the infrastructure" that amazon required for ups/dhl/* are
being used by any other (even tiny) buisiness.

My only complain is Ikea. Ikea doesn't cooperate.

~~~
_n_b_
Totally OT but where did you order the oranges from? I am in need of a few kg
for juicing and it's expensive from the local grocery delivery folks around
me...

~~~
yCloser
from www.aranciadoc.com

------
badrabbit
Two things about amazon:

1) Their customer service is astonishing! Still have not seen better. Google
might just take over the world if they came even 20% close to Amazon with this
regard.

2) Their giftcards. I don't know what it is but theirs has the highest value.
Even visa and mastercard will not be accepted at some places if you don't have
a cash gift card, but amazon's have incredible purchasing power.

------
non-entity
The thing about Amazon though, was the luxury of being able to order stuff and
have it by my door _the next day_. This was especially great for products
where the traditional brick and mortar retail died out a long time ago for
that industry (i.e. electronic components) or stuff that you want / need
regularly but isnt carried in stores near you.

------
giancarlostoro
Amazon is the only shop selling the most convenience. At least Walmart and
Target have online order and parking spots to pick up your orders from, but I
can only imagine a lot of old brick and mortar type of stores are way behind
the times. Just some stories on here are horror story level examples of the
night and day kind of service you can get in regards to buyer convenience.

------
blensor
I have started to fall back to a shopping site run by our postal service [1]
which has been trying for several months through TV ads to get people to use
the more regional shopping site rather than Amazon. I guess they could not
have hoped for a better scenario than a countrywide lockdown paired with
shipping delays at Amazon

[1] shoepping.at

------
radium3d
Prices on amazon have been way higher than alternatives lately. Be sure to
check other online outlets.

------
jupp0r
To any other non-amazon stores out there: have toilet paper in stock and I'll
give it a try!

------
tanilama
If Amazon has shipping delay in US, then it is unlikely other smaller shops
can fare it better.

~~~
jshevek
At the beginning of the pandemic, Amazon was overwhelmed by people panic
buying or preparing for shelter in place. The problem was not primarily the
shipping industry, it was within Amazon. They've since hired large numbers of
people and deprioritized [items deemed] non-essential so that people can get
their essential needs in a timely manner.

~~~
StillBored
How does amazon know what is essential?

~~~
jshevek
_Edit: I thought you said "determine" rather than "know", answered accordingly
below. Of course they don't "know", that's not a helpful question._

The same way everyone does when trying to solve this problem systemically (vs
individually), by making imperfect decisions and leaning on categories.

My UVC lamp was delayed. I think that's more important than someone else's
"third month" bunker food, but what are you going to do.

------
derrekl
I emailed a local comic shop that’s closed to the public, but I was able to
order $100 worth of trade paperbacks. Got it 2 days later. No “online” shop,
but still worked. As best you can, try to spend money with the local stores
you used to go to.

------
Finnucane
Too bad they didn't mention bookshop.org for getting books.

~~~
binaryorganic
I recently learned about bookshop, and was super excited until I actually
started making a wishlist of stuff I wanted and found half of it to either be
back ordered or not exist in their system at all. Turns out all orders are
processed through a single book supplier and if they don’t have it bookshop
won’t either.

As someone who doesn’t use Amazon, I tend to use indiebound, which just pairs
you with the closest independent bookstore who has the thing you want.

------
olafure
I used to use Amazon a lot. The two big factor were pricing and reviews.

Today their review system is massively rigged and can't be trusted.

------
neonate
[https://archive.md/k3zNE](https://archive.md/k3zNE)

~~~
monkpit
Https cert error

------
chadash
pro tip: I find that when things sell out on Amazon, there is often a lag
before it sells out on sites that cater to businesses. The first place to
check is staples.com, but I've even started placing a few orders with
restaurant supply stores and such.

------
homero
How are the shipping companies keeping up? That's the bottleneck.

------
LoSboccacc
yeah but the less shops you use the smaller the surface attack for your
personal and payment information

------
renewiltord
I was going to say how Amazon might as well be the only guys online but this
article is really good and offers real alternatives. Very cool.

------
jshevek
Edit: Article can be read here:

[http://archive.md/k3zNE](http://archive.md/k3zNE)

It seems like WSJ.com should not be the link used without a follow-up link
giving access to the whole community.

> _Are paywalls ok?

It's ok to post stories from sites with paywalls that have workarounds._

------
Kaibeezy
paywall, whatever :(

yep, amazon has been useless lately - ebay, on the other hand, all those
independent sellers, very responsive!

~~~
Diederich
[http://archive.md/k3zNE](http://archive.md/k3zNE)

~~~
Kaibeezy
thank you

------
MisterTea
Can someone please explain to me like I'm 5 why adults have to be told that
other retail outlets exist besides Amazon?

If you are one of these people, please kindly explain to me how you forgot
there are other shops.

~~~
maerF0x0
> please kindly explain to me how you forgot there are other shops.

I will provide one anecdata. Often times the first place I look for the
existence of an item is Amazon. That is if I want a certain cable, I do not
open and search 5-10 different places (overstock, target, bestbuy et al). I
just go to amazon and choose from what they have. There may be better, there
may be cheaper, but unlikely with a sufficient margin to compensate for the
overhead of searching more places, learning more nuances (return policy,
shipping) etc.

