
Ask HN: Education is broken, how do you fix it? - GroupRefer
For the past few years, there has been a worrying trend in education. Bill Gates has even blogged about it just last week. While everyone agrees we need a departure from the rote memory method of learning to one which involves critical thinking and decision making, how would you go about implementing this in a real life class format? Do away with text books and work with Case Studies like Harvard? What other methods could work?
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alid
Hey man! Nice question. Our current system of education was designed for 19th
century industrialism, yet today we’re preparing our kids for jobs that don’t
yet exist, using technology that hasn’t been invented, to solve problems we
can’t yet imagine.

We need to gear learning towards the 21st Century Set of Literacies: how well
we can find information, validate it, synthesize it, leverage it, communicate
it, collaborate with it and problem solve with it. And we need to be
developing self-driven learners who are confident thinkers, socially mature,
engaged in their communities, resilient in the face of life's challenges and
adaptable to change.

How does this play out in the classroom? With a greater focus on critical
reflection, teachers need to be Socratic and philosophic in their outlook.
Teachers need to act as vital facilitators and motivators, reflecting the move
towards a focus on self-directed learning. And they need to be highly trained
in emotional intelligence, reflecting a greater focus on behavioural and non-
cognitive skills.

I've written an essay about this on my personal blog if you're keen
(thecreativefiles.com)

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stevesearer
The high school I taught at for several years was working to lessen the usage
of textbooks and primarily work with literature and primary source materials.
In the history department, we delivered facts using lectures or a textbook
reading. Basically, the idea was to give the students enough facts that they
could then interpret and critically think about literature and the primary
source materials.

My testing was mainly essay based as it gave me the best view of whether or
not the students actually understood the material. It also gave them the
opportunity to learn how to better communicate what they knew, as opposed to
only what a teacher was asking. For instance, students might completely know
the circumstances and events surrounding the War of 1812, but forget things
like the names of forts or specific battles or dates. That student could
perform poorly on a multiple choice exam, but do tremendously well on an essay
test.

Scantron test = easy as hell to grade. Essay test = you actually have to know
what you're teaching.

I also believe that teacher credentialing has backfired. Credentialing
programs are basically made up of $10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone
that can put up with doing busywork can get through (exceptions exist). If I
were in charge, I would have some sort of apprenticeship system where new
teachers learned from the best teachers.

End note: it is also kind of silly that you need a college degree and a
credential to teach elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be proficient enough
at elementary school concepts when they graduate high school that they could
then teach the basics to others?

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japhyr
_it is also kind of silly that you need a college degree and a credential to
teach elementary school. Shouldn't everyone be proficient enough at elementary
school concepts when they graduate high school that they could then teach the
basics to others?_

This is a really important issue to understand. Good teaching is difficult,
even at the elementary level. Good teaching includes: \- responding to each
student's learning style; \- answering questions in a way that sets students
up for deeper learning in later years; \- meeting each student where they are
at, and allowing them to progress at their own pace each year; \- dealing
effectively with students who come to school hungry, abused, neglected and so
forth; \- a host of other situations that are difficult to deal with
effectively, but for which solutions have been developed.

This ties in well with one of your other observations: _I also believe that
teacher credentialing has backfired. Credentialing programs are basically made
up of $10,000 of busywork and make it so anyone that can put up with doing
busywork can get through (exceptions exist)._

In my experience as a teacher, I have seen this consistently. There is one
local teacher ed program where I live, and the administrators pride themselves
on running a "challenging" program. It is challenging in the volume of work
required, not in the intellectual effort required. There are so many bad
effects of this approach, and so many potentially good effects if an
intellectually rigorous and challenging program took its place.

I have also had an incredibly frustrating experience dealing with
certification. I started teaching in one state, and taught there for 7 years.
When I moved, I was granted temporary certification based on having held full
certification in another state. I have hosted student teachers, and generally
been recognized as an effective teacher. But after a few years in my new
state, I was told I had to go back and do a student teaching program because
the paperwork from my old state didn't fill in the right boxes on the
paperwork in my new state. Utter BS, and this is exactly the kind of stuff
that drives good teachers out of education.

I chose to stay in education and not let myself get pushed out by stupid
bureaucratic issues. I resolved to do my part in addressing these issues,
though, and I am grateful to be working with a staff that is tackling hard
education issues effectively.

~~~
stevesearer
I agree that there is more to teaching than simply knowing and understanding
the concepts. My overall message is more that credentialing is not the best
way to train new teachers.

I'd also argue that credentialing is also used to limit the number of teachers
entering the field to keep wages higher, but I suppose that is another matter
entirely :)

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EMRo
See Harvard Graduate School of Education report "Pathways to Prosperity:
[http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news_events/features/2011/Pathway...](http://www.gse.harvard.edu/news_events/features/2011/Pathways_to_Prosperity_Feb2011.pdf)

Some interesting strides have been made by the Partnership for 21st Century
Skills in changing how we learn and also how we measure learning success:

<http://www.p21.org/>

Even Apple threw its hat in the ring with Challenge Based Learning:

<http://www.apple.com/education/challenge-based-learning/>

Without doubt the current models being used in the US don't work. We aren't
teaching the right skills, we aren't measuring skills the right way (uniform
class-wide tests EOY) and the funding structure for schools encourages
bureaucracy and corruption at times.

However, the problems are all tightly intertwined in one ball. I would caution
against thinking that 'modern tech' is a cure all. Going from paper to iPads
won't solve all of the issues in a day. That said, some really cool companies
are killing it. Take a look at Edmodo.

Wish I had more time to get into this, alas, back to my code cave.

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saurabhpalan
Everyone keeps saying Education system is broken, and to some extent it is.
Here's some reasons why...

1\. with advancements in technology, education too needs to evolve, but we are
still stuck in the era of printed books and expensive text books. I remember
seeing a computer for the 1st time in grade 7. It took me few years to
understand the complete potential and how I can use it. Now, kids in pre-
school are hooked to iPad games and have figured out ways to watch cartoon on
demand. Thus going to school to learn about animals from textbook pics is not
very inspiring and interesting.

2\. For higher education, the school text books are still stuck in the 90's
technology. School needs to engage students with more hands-on work, rather
than lectures. Hands-on project building and training is a very useful tool
for learning and has proven to be more engaging among students of all ages.
[Shameless advertisement : checkout my workshops on robotics at
workshop.iroboticist.com]

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moonsoonmenu
I think some of the others may agree with me...just teahch through technology.
Make more places like khanacademy etc. Technology will disrupt the current
system and through it people will be able to meet and stabilize a new system
since it'll show people that learning is in new ways is possible. Bill and
Melinda Gates foundation are funding Khanacademy and are excited about many
sites like them, with technology we can answer more questions faster and help
teachers focus on answering important questions while not repeating menial
ones.

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jfaucett
speaking for myself as a learner, the only things I've learned to a very high
level (foreign languages, computer science, maths, etc ) have all been things
that I've had an immense amount of self interest in and have dedicated tons of
time to. In the us educational system I think one of main problems is that you
take a lot of subjects you don't need and another is that most subjects are
not presented in a problem solving approach manner.

It might just be my opinion, but I don't think sociology, anthropology, or
even anatomy have any reason for being on a high school curriculum. It seems
much more important to me to give students in this age group a really solid
understanding of core areas: math, physics, literature / writing (i.e. the
analytical thought and expressive process), and foreign languages (for today's
world I'd also add computer science). If you know and comprehensively
understand the above areas there's nothing stopping a high school student from
majoring in any field imaginable.

As far as the second area is concerned I think this just has to do with less
busy work and more active thought and problem solving engagement. For
instance, force students to come up with their own formulas for finding the
area of a square BEFORE you show them the formula and steps for sovling the
equations. I think this helps engrain knowledge and internalize it, also this
is how everything in the real world works anyway, and prepares students for
their future career choices.

Those are just some of my thoughts...

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stevesearer
Your comments makes me wonder if educators are too focused on having students
memorize specific information they deem necessary as opposed to being obsessed
about equipping students with the necessary skills to learn anything.

School can also be incredibly boring for students with interests outside the
narrow scope of the specified curriculum. I found that many students that
'didn't like history', just hadn't found a topic they could really sink their
teeth into. Once they did -let's say food in a particular time period- we
could then build off that interest to learn about that time period as a whole
(politics, society, wars, economics etc...)

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cambo01
There is so much hype and talk about this it's making me sick. Too much tunnel
vision. We need a drastic innovation. As in a streamlined system built for our
age. It needs to be agile.

We do education like we build products but we all know that after a four year
degree more often than not we don't have 'product/ market fit'. We should
train, test and iterate in small time frames.

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mathteacher1729
> how would you go about implementing this in a real life class format?

Allow experienced professional educators to shape education policy.

~~~
barry-cotter
Indeed, letting teachers decide what to do on the basis of what's rasiest and
most convenient for them is bound to have a 1:1 correspondence with the best
way for people to learn.

~~~
mathteacher1729
> Indeed, letting teachers decide what to do on the basis of what's rasiest
> and most convenient for them is bound to have a 1:1 correspondence with the
> best way for people to learn.

I consider myself a professional educator, so I will treat this statement as
if you were aiming it directly at me.

I'm not yet 10 years into my career, but I daresay I have a solid
understanding of what facilitates effective learning among my students. I can
quickly, accurately, and individually asses and guide my students on a path
which best suits their needs.

There is nothing a standardized test in my subject area can tell me about my
class that I don't already know, and there is much that a standardized test
will not reveal about the individuals within my class that I and my colleagues
already know.

I would like to see my students freed from wasting their valuable time
preparing for absurd tests which do not serve them in any useful or meaningful
fashion. My admins know how my students are doing because they receive reports
directly from me. They know my word is good because I am a professional.

The implementation of my wish to eliminate meaningless standardized testing
and have more control over my curriculum would not earn me one more cent than
I currently make. (I make less than 45k / year and I'm 6 years into it with a
masters degree.)

I love my work and seeing my students succeed is why I do it.

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GroupRefer
how about involving actual companies to come in and let them interact with the
students? For example, the marketing department of an FMCG company could ask
students to prepare a marketing campaign when students take up a marketing
course.

~~~
apoorvsaxena
this should be accompanied with the government providing tax benefits to the
organization that indulge in this initiative, which would not only help in
advertising and marketing, but will also catch the eye of organisations for
their own benefit.

