

Ohio State University Gets Armored Military Vehicle, Dodges Questions About It - trysomething
http://reason.com/blog/2013/09/19/ohio-state-university-gets-armored-milit

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greenyoda
Q: Why do colleges cost so much these days?

A: All that military hardware is sooooo expensive!

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westicle
I'd be interested to know more about the actual uses and capabilities of the
vehicle. For example, the article states that the military has had problems
with using the vehicles off-road and that the vehicle is prone to flip.

Elsewhere it is described as resistant to mines and ambush (how exactly?). I'm
wondering what situation a university campus is likely to encounter where this
vehicle would be superior to, say, a four-wheel drive.

~~~
Moto7451
My understanding from some of my Iraq war veteran friends is that Humvees lack
adequate undercarriage armor and they aren't designed for/can't be properly
modified to carry the proper armor. There are newer ones with beefed up
engines and suspensions but it's kinda like deciding you want to jump
ramps/obstacles in a vehicle and trying to supe up your pickup truck rather
than building a race truck[1].

MRAP is not a single vehicle but a class of vehicle[2]. The name kind of says
it all: Mine-Resistant Ambush Protected.

My friends were stationed in bases inside Iraq and never really had to do any
"off road-ing". They had to convoy between different installations within the
country. Typically on poor roads but roads none the less. They worked with the
Iraqi Defense Force to transport prisoners, supplies, etc.

This[2] is the kind of stuff that they were scared to death over and why they
wanted MRAPs. Apparently Humvees don't take kindly to those sort of explosions
or rockets, mines, IEDs, etc.

[1]My buddy and his friends do this with their Tacomas and regularly blow out
suspension and drivetrain parts. CVs especially. This is no fault of the
Tacoma, they are NOT designed to jump large gaps at speed like a Trophy truck.

[2][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MRAP)

(GRAPHIC)[3]
[http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02b_1189545597](http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=02b_1189545597)
(GRAPHIC)

Edit:

That said, I have NO idea why they'd want these in a city other than the
bling/super Ninja Robocop ego factor. Using the same SWAT vehicles as the
local PD seems like a better choice since the support network would already
exist.

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westicle
Interesting, thanks for the info.

It still leaves me wondering:

1\. Why a university would be expecting vehicle mines or even IEDs on campus;
and

2\. What value an armoured vehicle responding to that situation would have
anyway.

My understanding is that a vehicle mine is pretty useless once you know it is
there. This seems like a vehicle designed for regular trips over highly
contested or hostile (but reasonably well-maintained) roads.

~~~
Moto7451
Another commenter mentioned the police's vehicles get flipped by rowdy sports
crowds. The vehicle is probably surplus from the Iraq wind down. Some of
LAPD's helicopter fleet is, apparently, military surplus.

I would think that even if their MRAP is free the logistics would make it more
expensive that whatever vehicle SWAT is using. I would think that an Armored
car (like a bank would se) would also be a good choice if they're just looking
for a heavy and protected vehicle.

Realistically, it seems like if the crowd is that ugly, the local PD should be
called in. I don't think riot dispersal is really a great responsibility for
campus police.

Re the mines: I'm guessing you don't get much of a chance to check for mines,
especially on convoy routes. Car bombs at checkpoints (like the video I
linked) are probably impossible to detect before someone is in the blast zone.

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anologwintermut
Colleges of OSU's size have had problems with riots after games and at the end
of frat parties ( in fact, I believe OSU has had both, I know they have had
football riots [0]). Vehicles, including police cars, get flipped and set on
fire.

Since this is likely surplus military equipment from the US draw down in Iraq
bought for cheap, perhaps it was a cheap way to get a vehicle for riot
control?

Certainly, they aren't expected to drive across IEDs on campus.

Keep in mind, the police forces at large state schools are actual sworn law
enforcement officers who carry guns, arrest people, and are responsible for
crowd control. OSU is more than 56k people, well past the point where a town
would have it's own police force.

Of course, this says nothing about whether any police forces should have this
type of equipment.

[0][http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIHxDZwxloY](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wIHxDZwxloY)

~~~
gcb1
when 5+ people are going to pacifically hold signs in some park they have to
inform the authorities so they can provide public "protection".

why a game of that proportions is different? i take it that more than 5 people
are guaranteed to show up.

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runarb
To their defense: there has been a worrying trend recently where the
perpetrators of thus shootings have been much better equipped. Until recently
thus shootings was mostly done with 9-mm semi-automatic weapons. But for
example both the batman theater shooter and Anders Behring Breivik her in
Norway did use at least some bullet resisting equipment and assault rifles.

It is totally possible that the next shooter will have full tactical armor and
a fully automatic assault rifle with drum magazines. When this happened first
responders has to be prepared. They shouldn't have to wait on SWAT while
someone is going around shooting others. (This was what happened during the
Utøya attack in Norway. The police that first reposted did not have the
capability to stop the perpetrator, so they was set to direct traffic instead,
while they waited on the national counter-terrorism unit to come to aid them.
In the meanwhile Breivik could go around executing children.)

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reycharles
I remember a discussion on HN where this came up. IIRC someone suggested that
it was more about the price - for some reason there was / is a surplus of this
kind of vehicle. Unfortunately I can't find the thread again.

I wouldn't call this a tank, though.

~~~
trusche
Might have been this one:
[https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6186569](https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=6186569)

Radley Balko discusses this at some length in "Rise of the Warrior Cop", cited
in the article. Fascinating, scary read.

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gcb1
at reddit when this showed up weeks ago, ppl in the military were commenting
how driving those are the worst thing they did on service. that its
dangerously jumpy to the point they would question driving over speed bumps or
crosing over sidewalks.

seems that some company developed something for military no-price-limits
market that turned out so bad that they started a bargain sale to civilians.

ohio was just the first sucker that had to spend last minute budget to not
lose it next year. and knowing how prevalent is this, expect a lot more to pop
up.

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cynwoody
> _ohio was just the first sucker that had to spend last minute budget to not
> lose it next year._

Spend it† or lose it was my first thought, too.

†And then decide what, if anything, to use it for.

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benologist
For definitions of 'tank' that include 'armored truck' and exclude a cannon,
treads and other features you kind of expect on a tank.

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andymcsherry
Riots after Ohio State/Michigan game get pretty intense, there's usually a
fleet of helicopters out already.

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dagw
Why does campus security have to deal with that? If it's really as bad as you
claim, shouldn't it be up to the state or city police departments to deal
with.

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montitro
The campus security IS the police department. A lot of large state schools
have fully-fledged police departments, not private security.

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BrandonM
Not true. There are two separate groups in Columbus: OSU Police and the
Columbus Police Department.

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dllthomas
I assume the intended use is an invasion of Michigan.

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yareally
Happened once before (sorta) in a dispute over state boundaries.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toledo_War)

Ohio ended up getting the area around the Ohio/Michigan state line and
Michigan got the upper peninsula.

~~~
dllthomas
Yup. Was intended as a nod at both that, and the ongoing UM/OSU rivalry.

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davecyen
Always keeping it classy in Columbus. Go blue

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zero_intp
Ah, shades of Kent.

Four dead in Ohio.

