
Maersk and IBM aim to get 10M shipping containers onto blockchain - prostoalex
http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/maersk-ibm-aim-get-10-million-shipping-containers-onto-global-supply-blockchain-by-year-end-1609778
======
Hermel
Crazy, the paperwork around the shipping often is more costly than the
shipping itself:

> Maersk had found that a single container could require stamps and approvals
> from as many as 30 people, including customs, tax officials and health
> authorities.

> While the containers themselves can be loaded on a ship in a matter of
> minutes, a container can be held up in port for days because a piece of
> paper goes missing, while the goods inside spoil. The cost of moving and
> keeping track of all this paperwork often equals the cost of physically
> moving the container around the world.

~~~
blowski
I'm no expert, but I have friends who work in docks in the UK. I'm aware that
when paperwork goes missing, it's often not an accident.

~~~
zrth
Would you mind sharing some of the various reasons why the paper work goes
missing?

~~~
blowski
Two typical scenarios - unions are holding things up until they get a bribe,
or there is contraband on board and the holdup enables people to get it off.

~~~
imglorp
So that sounds like at least two parties who would be opposed to an
unrevokable ledger. Govt officials awaiting their bribes to let a container
pass would be a third party opposed.

Friction as usual.

------
ianpurton
They are using a private Blockchain.

This means a blockchain where to participate you need to be approved by a
single party or a consortium.

In my opinion if your blockchain is private then you might be better off using
an existing database technology centrally controlled and allowing people to
participate via an API. Expecting people to install Blockchain nodes locally
to participate in this scheme might be expecting too much.

The problem is that when software updates are required, which they will be,
you have the job of coordinating updates across a node infrastructure
installed in many companies and locations. If it goes wrong you have a chain
split.

Another problem is that the people who recommend or buy into the Blockchain
hype might not have the skills to properly asses it's appropriateness to
certain business cases.

~~~
INTPenis
Are you saying that the very use of a block chain is too complex to be
deployed by one IT-operational department at a large scale without issues?
Just trying to clarify what you mean.

~~~
tdb7893
I'm under the impression that he was saying that it's harder to manage and has
little benefit. I'm sure they could but it seems kinda silly

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PhilWright
What is the advantage of using a block chain for storing the information
rather than just having a database? Is there some intrinsic benefit or is it
just marketing hype?

~~~
phil21
I'm not in shipping - but wild speculation could be once you sign the
blockchain it's now your legal responsibility - no dickering over timestamps,
is that really our guy's signature, forged paperwork, whatever. You signed it
now it's yours until someone else does.

Implementing that may be somewhat more difficult though, and I have no idea if
this is really that large of a problem or not.

~~~
zhte415
It is incredibly tough. The manual steps in trade, down to scribbling a note
on the back of a single original piece of A4 paper, are tedious and tediously
documented, UCP for example
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Customs_and_Practice_f...](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uniform_Customs_and_Practice_for_Documentary_Credits).

Maersk will be implementing a new standard of implementation here, replacing a
standard that's been bootstrapped over centries. Expect an ISO or similar to
be created to define it, with a lot of reach into the workflow of insurance
companies and banking (LCs, etc).

This would be an interesting area to 'disrupt' if you could catch early wind
of the emerging standards and ride on the back of a new standard coming into
implementation.

------
dzdt
As usual, I like Matt Levine's take on this :
[https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/cargo-
blo...](https://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/2017-03-06/cargo-blockchains-
and-deutsche-bank).

 _The problem to be solved here is not chiefly technological: It 's getting
all of those agencies to agree to a single messaging protocol. That's hard!
They have long experience of using their own protocols (e.g., paper), and
little incentive to switch to Maersk's. Calling the new protocol a
"blockchain" makes it sound sexier, and so more likely to be adopted._

~~~
fragmede
I'm inclined to agree with the premise, that "blockchain" is just what the
cool kids are using, and adoption is piggybacking on that. Unfortunately the
article fails to go into any detail as to why that is or is not the case, it
merely quotes from the press release and then Matt points out that central
banking exists.

Shipping, especially on Maersk's level, has all sorts of challenges that I'm
sure I've never even contemplated, but Matt Levin's piece doesn't mention any
details that leads me to think he's working off any more details than I.

Large shipping container docks are horrible environments for electronics and
wireless technology. Long distances, lots of big metal things, lots of water
present - large bodies of water block and bounces radio waves and salt water
is corrosive to electronics, concrete everywhere, so laying cables is
expensive, and there may not even be power in a lot of places. Add multiple
layers of IT contracting on top of that and I'd be surprised if there's
anything Internet except at the main office, miles away from everything else.

While blockchain doesn't address problems with networking technology, I can
easily imagine the blockchain, as a solution for the Byzantine Generals
Problem, addresses practical issues when you need to give write access to the
database, to multiple parties, some of which cannot be trusted.

------
askmike
I think it's very interesting/strange/scary to see what started out as a
Cypherpunk dream come true is now being experimented with / used by the
industry it was meant to replace.

While I think Bitcoin (et al.) is extremely interesting and definitely has
it's use on the internet, it is becoming clear that it is a lot harder to
replace money than it is to replace media supply chains (torrents): Everywhere
from the political situation (blocksize discussion) to current usage cases (a
lot has to do with circumventing either capital controls or AML/KYC for a
number of reasons).

disclaimer: I do a lot of work in Bitcoin but am currently employed by a bank
for a project very similar to this one.

------
mark_l_watson
I have become a bit of an IBM skeptic, what with excessive IBM Watson hype,
but this seems like a really good idea. A distributed and secure blackboard
type system seems like the way to go, rather than using a database that one of
many parties is trusted to maintain.

I just looked at the Java SimpleExample code in the repo and it did not look
too difficult to use.

------
qznc
Is there some more technical description somewhere? They probably do not use
the Bitcoin Proof of Work technique?

~~~
bbrks
The first paragraph mentions it's using Hyperledger's Fabric[1] blockchain
implementation. I assume they're building their own smart contracts on top of
that.

[1]
[https://github.com/hyperledger/fabric](https://github.com/hyperledger/fabric)

~~~
merrickread
The hyperledger equivalent of ethereum's smart contracts is called chaincode.
I'm playing around with it now - so far enjoying it much more than smart
contracts.

[https://github.com/IBM-Blockchain/learn-chaincode](https://github.com/IBM-
Blockchain/learn-chaincode)

------
kirykl
bad news for customs brokers

------
fiftyacorn
Stories like this make me think of Season 2 of the Wire

~~~
jrockway
Because it was set in a location with shipping containers?

~~~
fiftyacorn
they use the software as part of the wire to determine which containers went
missing - a block chain would ruin that

